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Dragon Ball Z Abridged

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Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#35126: Jun 28th 2019 at 10:12:04 PM

I would feel they'd know the point as well, but season 3 exists.

So I guess it's appropriate for Kai 3 to follow!

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#35128: Jun 28th 2019 at 10:55:01 PM

The Ginyus are essentially there to put a narrative baseline on what the other characters can accomplish vs what Goku can accomplish, before the proverbial final boss, and also to give Goku some engagement in the plot before that final fight. Goku has, at that point, been away from the story for the entire arc, and the function of that sequence is thus to reestablish him as The Hero (even briefly) in contrast to the other characters.

They’re there for pacing, basically. Goku needed to fight someone when he got the Namek, before fighting Freeza. Someone stronger than the other protagonists (even if they surpass them during the rest of the story, the narrative effect is still the same) but weaker than Freeza. Otherwise it would feel like he swooped in and usurped the plot without stakes.

It’s a narrative trick Toriyama was very fond of: the best other example being Nappa. On the losing end it was also his favorite way to set up The Worf Effect quickly and effectively by establishing a presence for characters who have been absent from the story for a long period of time while also clearly allocating where power lies and how (such as there being a pointedly even fight between Piccolo and 17 right before Cell wipes them both out, or a weakened Goku losing to 19, who then is curbstombed by sudden Vegeta who is then, in turn, wipes out by 18).

Edited by KnownUnknown on Jun 28th 2019 at 10:55:55 AM

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#35129: Jun 28th 2019 at 11:41:14 PM

[up][up] More referring to them abridging less and being too serious.

It is my least favourite season but that wasn't what I was going for.

Nightwire Since: Feb, 2010
#35130: Jun 28th 2019 at 11:53:24 PM

Well, it seems they will be getting to basic with the Buu Saga.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#35131: Jun 29th 2019 at 8:36:18 PM

I think the main function the Ginyus served was giving Vegeta a reason to play nice with Krillin and Gohan.

Before the Ginyus arrived, Vegeta was right on the cusp of getting his immortality wish. He only needed the Dragon Ball that Gohan had swiped from him, and he was totally ready to throw down and be horribly murdered by Nail in order to get it.

The Ginyu Force's arrival threw a wrench into the existing dynamic of enmity between Vegeta and the Earthlings. Up to this point, he was on top of the world. The only person on the planet who he knew could threaten him, Frieza, was completely blind without the Scouters. Goku was still some ways out in space, while Krillin and Gohan didn't have a snowball's chance in Hell of taking him. Also, he had no idea that Nail could turn him inside out. In the three-way race to claim the Dragon Balls, Vegeta was winning.

The Ginyus were the purple shell to a Vegeta already preparing his victory lap. They not only destroyed his winning streak, but they brought replacement scouters. The broken scouters being the only thing protecting Vegeta from Frieza's wrath, remember. The simple fact of their presence on the planet sent Vegeta tumbling from 1st place to "OH GOD TEAM UP WITH ME OR WE'RE ALL DOOMED."

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FrozenWolf2 (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#35132: Jun 29th 2019 at 8:49:13 PM

The Ginyus are both padding and a necessary step

since lets be honest by the time their dealt with Everything is pretty much reset to before they arrived SAVE Frieza's scouter but thats the thing Freeza's scouter could have come from anything Narratively 'The guys back at the ship slap one together, you got spare armor you'd think Scouter parts would be on the ship'

Hell Goku is once again out of action

but it does force the uneasy Alliance of Vegeta and Co... which I think only Freeza immediately bearing down on them would do. 'Which is one of the reasons why Vegeta doesn't just kill Goku, Gohan and Krillin once he finds out he can't make the balls work so ironically there was a built in fail safe for Vegeta getting all the balls

So I guess if you'd cut the Ginyus... Idk make Nail alot more important

Edited by FrozenWolf2 on Jun 29th 2019 at 10:56:23 AM

Praise be to the absolute Queen
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#35133: Jun 29th 2019 at 9:54:29 PM

They could have used Nail, but as I understand it, he'd have utterly wrecked everyone barring Ginyu.

Then again, they could have had Nail arrive to help them and get bodyjacked by Ginyu instead, and then have Goku arrive and fight him.

Or you know, not make Power Levels so high. That might also help.

One Strip! One Strip!
FrozenWolf2 (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#35134: Jun 30th 2019 at 5:22:42 AM

The power level inflation was clearly Toriyama trying to hammer home how insurmountable Freeza was a an opponent that you weren't outmatched, you were doomed from the get go

The numbers don't mean anything though

like Vegeta jumps from 35k -more then enough to put Zarbon away' to basically rivaling Freeza's 1st form in one beating

that an powerlevels don't work as well as Toriyama wants them too

Vegeta is barely stronger then Dodoria and Zarbon when he kills them '24k vs 22k and then 35k vs 33k respectively' numbers wise

Yet he basically annihilates them when the numbers imply that the bouts suggest fairly even fights... yet Vegeta on Earth is able to not only take a beating from someone easily out putting him, He survives things that should have outright killed him by Freeza saga logic

THE BEAM STRUGGLE

has Goku having to use Kaioken x4 to win correct

Why should he need x4? Vegeta's max is 18k

Goku at x3 would be at 24k -IE 6000- Higher then Vegeta's max

at x4 that mean Goku is rocking a 32k beam!... Vegeta is not only able to take the hit, he's able to not be reduced to dust by it and throw himself off it with only minor damage

Praise be to the absolute Queen
randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#35135: Jun 30th 2019 at 5:52:01 AM

Apparently you forgot the brief...very brief feature of beams causing their power to rise as they charge them.

so OBviously that wasn't his Maximilian.

Edited by randomness4 on Jun 30th 2019 at 5:52:39 AM

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
Adannor (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#35136: Jun 30th 2019 at 6:27:37 AM

So does Goku's. And iirc wasn't Kamehameha supposed to be a super-good beam skill with extra charging potential?

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#35138: Jun 30th 2019 at 6:50:19 AM

I did say "their"...

If Karrot had to use a x4 multiplier to overwhelm, that obviously means Veggie's energy gain was bigger.

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#35139: Jun 30th 2019 at 8:04:04 AM

The Kamehameha is apparently a very basic attack.

It just has a buttload of utility because of that. When you just up your base power to improve it (or learn something like the Kaioken or Super Saiyan) why invent a new and better attack to go with it.

One Strip! One Strip!
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#35140: Jun 30th 2019 at 11:36:13 AM

Vegeta's pretty amazing with beams. Not only was his Galick Gun able to overpower a Kamehameha from a much more powerful foe (18k v. 24k), but his Final Flash could have obliterated Perfect Cell.

Goku has a lot of advantages over Vegeta as a fighter, but when it comes to outputting raw destructive power in beam form, Vegeta's the ace.

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HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#35141: Jun 30th 2019 at 12:14:58 PM

That's fair enough, and something that probably doesn't get emphasized all that much.

I mean, it's there, but you have to look. There's a lot of that in DB actually. I've learned so much about the series from disagreeing with you guys (and often being wrong about things).

Toriyama is very simplistic in his story telling. His laziness is oddly enough his greatest strength sometimes, because it can lead to him cutting the fat and getting straight to the point. This even applies to how he views his martial arts. You don't need a million fancy skills: you just need to be stronger than the other dude. Hence why Roshi focused on buffing Krillin and Goku's base power, then left them to figure out technique all on their own.

The drawback in this attitude is that it often (though no always) feels like he ignores other factors that could affect the battle...unless it hampers the heroes that is.

One Strip! One Strip!
sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#35142: Jun 30th 2019 at 12:29:11 PM

[up][up] maybe that's why Beam Spam is Vegeta's fallback when pushed into a corner.

HailMuffins Since: May, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#35143: Jun 30th 2019 at 3:43:48 PM

[up][up]Toriyama really is the Eastern epitome of "brilliance inspired by sloth", or at least a strong contender.

The more I learn about the process behind the creation of Dragon Ball, the more it gets clear that all the hallmarks of Battle Shonen storytelling that he either codified or invented was just him making things easier for himself: Super Saiyan transformation, the time-skip, it's bonkers.

PS: In case anyone is interested, I consider the Western epitome of "brilliance inspired by sloth" to be Douglas Addams.

Heatth (X-Troper) Relationship Status: In Spades with myself
#35144: Jun 30th 2019 at 5:22:58 PM

The Kamehameha is apparently a very basic attack.

Yeah. The very first time another beam attack is shown, the Dondonpa, it is explicitly marked as the stronger technique. All in all, the Kamehameha is not all that special. It is stronger than a generic energy blast and can be controlled to a limited extend, but that is it. Many other energy attacks are demonstrably stronger.

Goku has a lot of advantages over Vegeta as a fighter, but when it comes to outputting raw destructive power in beam form, Vegeta's the ace.

I guess you are not counting "square shaked explosion" as a "beam", because otherwise Tenshinhan is the ace.tongue Then again, you probably should dock points out of Shin-Kikouhou for hurting you in the process.

Seriously though, can you imagine if Goku actually learned it?

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#35145: Jun 30th 2019 at 7:43:54 PM

That depends on if life energy is different the higher your power level is.

Toriyama has never really explained how it's different from Ki as we see it in the series, so it's entirely possible that Goku wouldn't get much more out of it.

Plus Tien only uses it because it's literally the only weapon he has that packs any sort of punch.

One Strip! One Strip!
dRoy Professional Writer & Amateur Scholar from Most likely from my study Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: I'm just high on the world
Professional Writer & Amateur Scholar
#35146: Jul 1st 2019 at 12:09:53 AM

Finished watching ep 60 epilogue.

Holy shit, the whole Cell arc went on forever.

Before anyone tells me to imagine how much longer it was in the orginal anime, well, I dropped it midway into the Super Saiyan saga to begin with.

Apparently even back when I was a preschooler, I understood the concept of Arc Fatigue.

Edited by dRoy on Jul 2nd 2019 at 4:10:21 AM

Continuously reading, studying, and (hopefully) growing.
Adannor (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#35147: Jul 1st 2019 at 12:13:42 AM

Cell went from May 20, 1992 to June 30, 1993, not counting epilogues. So yeah, it was over a year originally.

randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#35148: Jul 1st 2019 at 12:43:39 AM

Super Saiya-jin saga?

Um...that's not very specific.

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#35149: Jul 1st 2019 at 12:49:09 AM

Do you mean the Frieza Saga when the Super Saiyan was a big deal?

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#35150: Jul 1st 2019 at 1:02:01 AM

That'd be really short...and spoiler-y.

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.

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