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HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#34826: Mar 22nd 2019 at 10:12:23 AM

Eh. I don't always totally agree with what Tobias says, but I can usually see where he's coming from pretty well.

Like, even if I think there's some exaggeration in his statements, I can see that core truth it was born from and acknowledge that.

In this case though I feel he's nailed it. I've always felt that from a narrative standpoint, both the audience and the writers are a little harder on their heroes.

One Strip! One Strip!
VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#34827: Mar 22nd 2019 at 10:24:39 AM

It's not something I wasn't already aware of, but putting the point into a sufficient context is something he has a talent for.

Larkmarn Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Hello, I love you
#34828: Mar 22nd 2019 at 12:15:18 PM

I mean, Piccolo's move to good kind of is more impressive since he's Made of Evil and still had a genuine Heel–Face Turn. It's honestly quite easy to see why the fandom takes his good acts as more noteworthy.

It basically took Goku Heel–Face Brainwashing to become anywhere near to the side of good.

Edited by Larkmarn on Mar 22nd 2019 at 3:18:27 PM

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Eriorguez Since: Jun, 2009
#34829: Mar 22nd 2019 at 1:05:41 PM

Saiyans are people, and Piccolo wasn't quite made of evil; he was the reincarnation of somebody who was, but Jr wasn't quite his dad.

RodimusMinor Professional Complainer Since: Oct, 2018
Professional Complainer
#34830: Mar 22nd 2019 at 1:57:42 PM

Nah, Tobias is on point. It's basically why tropes like Pet the Dog exist; we expect heroes to do good while villains showing off their positive qualities is surprising and unexpected.

randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#34831: Mar 22nd 2019 at 2:25:46 PM

That's lame.

The best part of Piccoro and Veggie's arcs were their sacrifices.

Because they died doing good.

That's harsh.

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Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#34832: Mar 22nd 2019 at 4:43:18 PM

[up][up][up] Yeah, that was pointed out when Piccolo killed Raditz and his soul wasn't stuck in limbo like the victims of Piccolo Daimao and his other children.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#34833: Mar 22nd 2019 at 7:24:09 PM

His and Goku's.

If Piccolo's reincarnation hadn't un-demon'd him, Goku never would have been in the afterlife to train under Kaio-sama in the first place.

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Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#34834: Mar 22nd 2019 at 7:27:59 PM

I don't think that's the case, as God reflects on the fact that Raditz' soul passed to the afterlife after he'd already taken Goku to Otherworld.

It would appear that God would have been able to move Goku's soul to Otherworld either way.

Unless Goku's self sacrifice has something to do with it. It's a spiritual thing more than a science.

Edited by Saiga on Mar 23rd 2019 at 12:28:38 AM

sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#34835: Mar 22nd 2019 at 7:52:00 PM

Not strictly related, but I always had the headcanon that part of what helped Piccolo turn good is that he actually accomplished the task he was born to perform: kill Son Goku.

He was literally born to do exactly that and, once done, he could do whatever he wanted.

The idea even gets a reference before 17 and Piccolo fight, with Piccolo's response to 17's "Do you know how it feels hearing a voice in your head say 'kill Son Goku' over and over?" was "Nostalgia"

Edited by sgamer82 on Mar 22nd 2019 at 8:52:08 AM

randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#34836: Mar 22nd 2019 at 8:22:06 PM

How is that related?

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#34837: Mar 22nd 2019 at 8:24:18 PM

It isn't, hence the "not strictly related", but it is related to the talk of Piccolo turning good, so I figured "what the hell, why not toss it in"

randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#34838: Mar 22nd 2019 at 8:37:47 PM

I mean Piccoro technically doing what he was programmed to do and the scene just before him and 17 fighting.

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#34839: Mar 22nd 2019 at 9:04:08 PM

It relates to the same idea, which is never really mentioned or considered in canon.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#34840: Mar 23rd 2019 at 6:09:37 PM

Well, the thing about it is that Piccolo had to be born with a capacity for good in the first place. He's the reincarnation of Piccolo Daimao, who is literally pure evil. Daimao is a demon, the evil half of God.

What Piccolo's victims not being trapped in limbo tells us is that when Piccolo reincarnated himself, he was reborn as a full Namekian. He's still Piccolo, but because he's no longer a demon, he has a capacity for good in him.

Indeed, even in Piccolo's evil ambitions, we see the distinction between Demon Piccolo and Namekian Piccolo. Jr. wants to take over and rule the world. Daimao intended to exterminate it, after first plunging it into the darkest depths of hedonistic debauchery that the mortals of the world were capable of. They're both Bad Guy Motives, but one significantly more wicked than the other.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Mar 23rd 2019 at 7:10:10 AM

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fasoman1996 Google "big ears" from Argentina (A.K.A. Naziland) Since: Dec, 2014 Relationship Status: Baby don't hurt me!
Google "big ears"
#34841: Mar 23rd 2019 at 6:17:57 PM

Piccolo's tenure as a villain was quite shortlived once you think about it.

Uni cat
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#34842: Mar 23rd 2019 at 7:48:20 PM

He never killed anybody until Goku literally held another dude down and said Kill Us Both either.

Then again, he was so hyper focused on Goku that he never tried to kill anyone else anyway, but there's a pragmatism in that: he knew full well that once he killed Goku no one else stood a chance.

In a way, the true hero is Raditz: his arrival created the situation that allowed Piccolo's potential for goodness to actually flourish.

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Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#34843: Mar 23rd 2019 at 7:52:14 PM

Raditz is the true father figure for Gohan. As soon as he realised his brother wasn't raising him right he immediately liberated the boy with the intent of raising him himself unless Goku could show that he was committed to changing.

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#34844: Mar 23rd 2019 at 9:57:08 PM

Here here.

He doesn't get the respect he deserves. Which is par for the course really.

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Soble Since: Dec, 2013
#34845: Mar 24th 2019 at 7:21:52 AM

He got his two minutes in the Broly movie.

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Ghilz Perpetually Confused from Yeeted at Relativistic Velocities Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Perpetually Confused
#34846: Mar 26th 2019 at 12:01:36 PM

Kaizer confirmed DBZA Kai should be out next Monday, assuming no hickups.

WillKeaton from Alberta, Canada Since: Jun, 2010
#34847: Mar 26th 2019 at 12:58:18 PM

I think they said that Season 3 was so long that the Kai episode is going to actually be two episodes.

Rytex Your Friend on the Other Side from Here, There, Everywhere (Ancient one) Relationship Status: Married to the music
Your Friend on the Other Side
#34848: Mar 26th 2019 at 1:10:46 PM

Yeah, part one coming soon. Part two gonna be in a while. Still no word on when Season 4 kicks off.

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WillKeaton from Alberta, Canada Since: Jun, 2010
#34849: Mar 26th 2019 at 1:13:04 PM

I think they plan to clear out everything else on the chopping block, ie Kai & Bojack, before they start on Season 4, which I am totally fine with.

Soble Since: Dec, 2013
#34850: Mar 26th 2019 at 3:29:23 PM

I'm still psyched to find out what they they'll do with Majin Buu. He can't be the same Crosses the Line Twice that Cell is. But, Freeza and Cell were exaggerations of their canonical personalities, linked by their sadism and huge egos. Buu wasn't too different besides having a smaller ego.

I'm expecting Buu to be to Goku what Goku was to Freeza, annoying the crap out of Vegeta and Gohan respectively, taking Goku's wanton desire for challenge and turning it against everyone.

Then he's going to shift and absorb Piccolo's sass, and finally Gohan's wit.

But after that he'll just be a raving lunatic.

Its going to be a glorious, multi-layered fustercluck of a character until his personality dissolves into raw, unmitigated violence at the end.

Edited by Soble on Mar 26th 2019 at 5:27:24 AM

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