Dragon Ball Z Abridged

Canonically he has 1 biological child, so yeah he is still intact.

In the Abridgeverse....i don't really know.

Well rolling with the idea that this isn't semantics, I guess they could make a joke about him getting married and adopting. And Goku, having become so used to the idea that sex makes babies, has absolutely no idea how Android 17 can have children.

He did adopt two kids. He's got three, not that we've seen a single one yet.

We haven't even seen his wife yet. Poor 17.

Probably female Krillin

I suddenly want 17's wife to be Upa.

I'm thinking she's Launch. Because please, let her have a happy life.

Besides, if anyone could handle Launch it'd be 17

What would they connect over, though? 17 is into ignoring his powers so he can drive fast cars and shoot gu—

...

They would be the perfect couple and I am 100% in support of this.

... actually, that reminds me that 17's power gains are even more ridiculous than I thought. 17 of anyone is the least likely to even use his power, let alone train. He thinks it's fun to do things like a normal.

But I suppose that's a thing for the regular DB thread.

Kaiser reflecting on the challenge of writing the relationship of Goku/Gohan/Piccolo

And somewhere in the limbo, Bluehair!Lunch cries a single tear, wondering if someone will ever remember she exists. And the answer is no, because she is terrible.

Dude's way too hard on this. The finale was fine. Characterizing the relationship as a neglectful one, amplifying Goku's thoughtlessness and Piccolo's attentiveness was funny. It's a parody. Everyone's traits are amplified. You don't hear people complaining about how gross Cell is or how obnoxious Vegeta is. We know full well that this is an exaggeration of their actual personalities.

I don't think it was some grand, "mistake-correcting" move to have Goku and Gohan's relationship finally repaired. The story was headed there, and it was a great way to resolve the Abridged version of their character development. I fully expected for Goku to finally acknowledge Gohan during the Cell Games because, yeah, that's basically what happened. That was Gohan's moment, and it's when Gohan's power got too his head.

The bits on Namek where Goku says hi to everybody and ignores Gohan, and when he goes off to talk to Trunks despite Gohan's protests, and where Goku just up and IT's him away to see Vegeta, Future Gohan reflecting on Goku and Piccolo - heck, everyone except for Cell agreeing with Piccolo's assessment of Goku as a father - those are some of the funniest moments.

I've scarcely thought of Goku as an abusive father - as they said, the joke was always that that was what the community thought of them. And now that this arc has been closed they're free to start a new joke in Season 4.

He is probably saying this because he, like many others, got fed up with the bad dad goku jokes and had to make this statement.

Because i'm pretty sure DBZA is a big reason those jokes became a lot more frequent

The problem came when a lot of people started taking that character exaggeration and applying it to the actual series, and they kept doing it and didn't stop. Kaiser felt responsible for that happening.

Yeah. That sounds right to me.

Didn't help that Toriyama himself said Goku only sees his family as really close friends or some shit.

And there was that one creative translation of the Super manga with Goku's reaction to Gohan not entering the Universe 6 tournament.

So people, as they are wont to do, jumped on it.

Goku and Piccolo have those reputations for a reason.

Not a good reason. But a reason. It all has to do with audience expectation.

Goku is the hero of the piece. We expect him to do good things, so audiences don't properly credit him when he does. It's his job to do good things. It's his job to save the world. If he wasn't doing it, he wouldn't be the hero. His good qualities are easy to take for granted because they're supposed to be there.

What audiences notice are Goku's failings more than his virtues. Because he's supposed to be the hero, when he does things like gamble the fate of the Earth for a rematch with Vegeta or refuse to come home to his wife and kid so he can learn a cool new martial technique, these are the things that come to define his character in an audience's mind.

Piccolo, however, is a bad guy. He tried to kill the world with a death lottery and attempted to murder Goku at the Budokai Tenkaichi. So when he's like, "AMBER ALERT, F*CKERS!" we don't hold that against him. When he turns Gohan into a Child Soldier, we don't hold that against him. He's a Bad Guy being a Bad Guy.

Instead, what sticks out in audience's minds even as the rest of the details fade into the haze of memory is his arc, where Gohan changes his heart and he sacrifices his life to protect the kid. That's what winds up defining people's impression of him.

Thus, unfairly, Goku winds up with the reputation, "Hero who sucks at family" and Piccolo with "Villain who reformed for love of his adopted son." Heroes are remembered for their flaws and villains for their virtues, which is why general discourse can often wind up being weirdly pro-villain and anti-hero.

Vegeta, Bee-tee-dubs, also benefits from this dynamic. Why do people think Vegeta, of all f*cking people, is a better father than Goku? Because heroes are judged by their flaws and villains by their virtues.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Mar 22nd 2019 at 8:34:46 AM

Edited by HandsomeRob on Mar 22nd 2019 at 8:47:08 AM

That's a very accurate assessment of the situation.

Yeah, people hold it against Goku when he stays gone for a year training to master Super Saiyan and Instant Transmission before coming home, but no-one ever holds it against Piccolo when he left a 4-year-old all alone in the wilderness for half a year to fend for himself.

Tobias Drake dropping mics all over this thread.

I've seen that brushed aside as "Piccolo was evil at the time, so that doesn't count." I feel like the issues there should be obvious, but it's how some people look at things.

Edit: Oh, I see that Tobias actually elaborated on that point way better than I could have.

Edited by LSBK on Mar 22nd 2019 at 11:19:08 AM

Yeah. As Tobias essentially put it, we expect heroes to be good without fail and bad guys to be bad. So when either does something that could, in anyway be conceived as being the opposite, we immediately latch onto it.

It's one of the many reasons for Ron the Death Eater and Draco in Leather Pants, and probably contributes to the attitude that Good Is Boring and Evil Is Cool. Good guys are only seen as interesting when they have massive flaws to overcome, but some dudes can overdo it (or some audiences hold it against them when they show these flaws and as said already let them overshadow their good) while the moment the villain shows a touch of something beyond villainy they are suddenly better than the hero in anyway.

...well, I'm probably exaggerating a little on that.

Edited by HandsomeRob on Mar 22nd 2019 at 10:30:31 AM

Damb Tobias that's like the most dope thing you've ever said.

I'd agree if this wasn't tobias we're talking about. he's been putting the bar pretty damn high those last months.