Kaiser's thoughts kind of mirror my own. Gohan isn't the main character for the Saiyan and Namek arcs, just a side character with foreshadowing of something more. He's barely involved in the plot at all in the Cell saga until the very end, which was awesome, but he's not really suited to the main character role. He only had the role of main character for a short time at the start of the Buu Saga up until the 25th Tenkaichi Budokai, when Goku came back.
Honestly, I like Gohan as he is now. Gohan as a side charater who struggles with balancing his family, work, and training, and also is one of the most intelligent and sensible characters in the cast is much more interesting to me than Gohan as the main character. I think he's better suited to the role of a side character, with occasional moments in the spotlight.
I'm also with Kaiser on Gohan. The Father-Son Kamehameha is a great moment of spectacle to conclude the arc on, but it serves as the culminating climactic moment to a long-running story arc that doesn't actually exist and never did. It's a climax that tries to declare an arc retroactively so that it has something it can be the climax of.
Which is, itself, an appropriate way to end the Cell arc, a storyline that itself burrows its way into the plot by retroactively declaring itself to be the thrilling conclusion to a long-running plot thread that doesn't exist and never did. Featuring that guy you surely remember from the original storyline, the one who never appeared or was mentioned by name but we can say looking back that he probably made that one android that helped Goku defeat them.
Pilaf has a greater claim to being the story's Myth Arc than Red Ribbon does.
The Cell arc is all about empty spectacle, with most of the actual plot beats being f*ckstupid. But it's really good at empty spectacle and that's why it's remembered fondly. Hellzone Grenade! SO COOL, does nothing, means nothing. FINAL FLASH! SO COOL, does nothing, means nothing. GOKU'S TELEPORTING KAMEHAMEHA!!! SO COOL, does nothing, means nothing.
Edited by TobiasDrake on Jan 2nd 2019 at 9:56:41 AM
My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.What Kaisar said makes sense; Gohan just doesn't fit the style of writing that Toriyama excels in.
But it leads to the odd situation of Goku's family just...feeling superfluous. If Gohan is just a supporting character, then Goten barely qualifies as one.
I'm not gonna say Toriyama is a bad writer but because he just writes in the moment, a lot of things just end up being superfluous.
A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.Why should he have gotten married?
So it could lead to moments in filler that people really like.
And other jokey stuff.
Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.Very much so.
A little planning might have prevented him from creating characters with no purpose (or who he refuses to give a purpose to).
You can argue we didn't lose anything when he opted to stop showing Launch, but if she was so unimportant that he could just do that, why did he keep her around for so long?
He's too in the moment when he creates characters, and doesn't consider what he'll do with them once they're done with their role. At the same time, he keeps them around when they don't have a real purpose anymore either.
And because of how he writes things (constantly escalating conflict that makes the most powerful opponent or hero utterly irrelevant when someone new shows up) a character can run out of purpose real quick.
One Strip! One Strip!It has it's place, but there's something to be said for a character having some potential if a writer was just willing to use it.
With some exceptions where he was willing to work with them, Toriyama hasn't always used his characters all that well.
I mean, he played the The Cavalry Arrives Late card twice, with everyone rallying to fight the Big Bad (Red Ribbon so they could help Goku, and then King Piccolo to help Tien) only to get there and find out Goku did it all on his own. To say nothing of how he often had Goku go off on his own for months or years without any other cast members, until he brought them back to get beat up by the latest villain (poor Krillin completely missed the Piccolo arc due to being murdered from the get go, and Yamcha couldn't do anything due to a broken leg).
He never really seemed to want to use the cast he had, probably because he didn't find a cast he really liked until later in the series. But by that time, he had a bunch of other dudes who were the same characters, but less. Much much less. So they got the boot...and they never got much before that.
Edited by HandsomeRob on Jan 2nd 2019 at 12:37:52 PM
One Strip! One Strip!![]()
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I kinda agree it is a bit of a waste myself, but if the characters keep showing and yet do nothing, it is just a worse problem. And, like, it is not that Hunter x Hunter forgets its side character. They leave to give room for the new side characters, but they can still appear later, when they are actually relevant (or maybe as a single chapter cameo).
Personally, I don't have much of an issue with Lunch, Oolong and Puar. They most only really appear in group scenes or audience for the tournament anyway, so in the manga they don't keep distracting from the story. Oolong and Lunch still hanging around for no reason instead of moving on with their lives is weird but, again, they never hinder things much. It is Tenshinhan and Yamcha that I take issue with. They keep showing up in important scenes as if they are main characters but they keep failing to contribute to anything. Toriyama should have find a way to write them out of the story if he couldn't find a better use for them other than canon fodder. An example of a good side character is Yajirobe, at least he only gets involved when he actually have something to do.
Which is not to say I wouldn't prefer that Toriyama allowed the humans a better chance to catch up or find other ways for them to contribute. I like the humans, I like Yamcha, Tenshinhan and Chaozu. But if he wasn't going to do that, he should write them out, like he did with Mutenroshi, who was a main fighter prior to the Piccolo arc and then just stop being that later.
Also, that is not to say that the way Toriyama write off Lunch was good. I think it is a good idea he stoped using a character he clearly didn't want to use anymore, but it would be more satisfying if we actually learned what the hell she ended up. Like, "followed Tenshinhan" would be a good enough send off in my book, if not for the fact that Tenshinhan continues to appear without mentioning her once.
Edited by Heatth on Jan 2nd 2019 at 5:51:24 PM
I said nothing about forgetting the characters or them never showing up again.
Simply that they're created with a purpose and when that purpose is over there's not a lot bruhaha about them staying around. It doesn't preclude them being used again.
But this is different from (I think) fairly confident sentiment of "I like this character, they're better than the main characters, so should stick around for the rest of the story" that happens very often with side characters and gets touted as "bad writing" when most writers almost inevitably don't make people's arbitrary favorites permanent fixtures.
Edited by LSBK on Jan 2nd 2019 at 1:54:55 PM
Fair enough.
I'll be the first to admit a lot of my dissatisfaction with how Toriyama uses his characters is that I like some of them and think there were things they could still do if he'd only been willing to explore it.
Still I also think he falls into patterns with certain characters, setting them up to fail in order to prop up someone else, and while it might work for the story, it shows a lack of willingness to experiment and see if there are ways to really put them to use. Especially when he then creates new characters who are better at that thing, making the old character superfluous...but he still keeps using them for that role.
One Strip! One Strip!Ultimately, it's a case by case basis. If you grew attached to a certain character and want to see more of them, then them not showing up can make them "wasted".
You can't dictate who people like and don't like and want to see more of.
That said, not EVERY supporting character needs to be relevant. There's nothing wrong with some fading from relevance after they served their purpose.
The Sonic series struggles with this too and it bugs me to know end.
A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.I mean, even when they were the primary supporting cast, Toriyama didn't really use characters like Yamcha, Krillin and Tien well.
He was always finding ways to push them out in the pre Saiyan Saga, or keep them from being involved in the final battle (especially the former two).
And sometimes he just brings characters back on a whim when there's not much they can do. Chi-chi and the Pilaf gang are part of this (this especially applies for the latter in Super, because why are they there?).
I also wonder if his lack of use of females beyond Bulma is because he thinks he's got to pair them up with someone. Chi-chi only showed up to pursue a promise with Goku made years ago, 18 started as a villain, but was kept around to be Krillin's wife, and even Bulma herself was initially involved in the plot for the sake of romance (wishing for a boyfriend).
I think he's got a bit of a one track mind, and while he likes subverting the audience, he's poor at subverting himself and going outside his comfort zone...and even when he tries, it doesn't go far enough. Look at how the Tournament of Power went. Especially since he went with characters who, by his own scaling were massively out of their league, and had no business involved in it while deliberately not using the ones who made the most sense.
One Strip! One Strip!And that's what I'm talking about; you feel Tien, Yamcha, and Chaotzu are wasted because they didn't do enough but other people felt they were fine because they were never going to amount to anything to begin with.
Like, it really does depend on how you feel on where you stand with this...and the numerous debates can attest to.
A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.That's very true.
Though I'd ask if they were always meant to never amount to anything (like he never planned to use them) or if he just created other characters that he liked better and never felt the need to find new roles for other characters, while still including them for the sake of including them.
I mean, if he'd written them out early because they did what they needed to do, I'd be ok with that.
One Strip! One Strip!They were rivals for Goku to surpass and nothing more, stepping stones on Goku's continuous path for getting stronger.
Toriyama likely just kept them around so they can lose to build up Goku.
But when that stopped being important, he just silently pushed them to the side.
Basically, because of how the story of Dragon Ball works, Goku is continuously reaching new heights and is inevitably going to leave everyone else in the dust, which necessitates new rivals for him to challenge.
People joke that Dragon Ball is the Goku show because...well, it is. It's his story and nobody else's, they're just along for the ride and they or may not be left behind.
A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.Toriyama likely just kept them around so they can lose to build up Goku.
But when that stopped being important, he just silently pushed them to the side.
Tell me about it. I mean, I know this already, but knowing that these guys were only there to prop up Goku doesn't make it any easier.
They were never characters as much as they were tools for Goku's development, but that's a shit way to use characters sometimes.
But it's also truth. A very bitter truth to swallow, even as someone who likes Goku.
One Strip! One Strip!

I wouldn't say he ever corrected his mistake so much as made a much bigger one that stuck.