I suppose that's what happens when you've never had to put effort into anything before.
At that point, beyond Freeza and his higher class minions (The Ginyus, Zarbon and Dodoria) there wasn't anyone who could say they were stronger than Vegeta.
Suddenly this low class punk comes along and hands him his ass, when every thing Vegeta knows says that shouldn't even be possible.
As we all know, he didn't take it well.
Except he isn't.
Sure, Goku had to use a fancy trick to surpass him (and nearly wrecked himself in the process), but technically he was the stronger of the two.
One Strip! One Strip!Even in the manga, SSJ Goku vs Freeza is essentially an afterthought. There is no meat to it, they just punch each other for a couple of pages, Goku gets bored and Freeza kills himself. Even Toriyama agrees with that! To him the story essentially ended with Goku turning Super Sayan and the following fight was more or less a formality.
So, yeah, even in the manga I would say the fight is not good. I wouldn't say it is bad but still. Base Goku vs Freeza is a good fight, but the post SSJ fight is whatever.
Edited by Heatth on Dec 23rd 2018 at 9:58:01 AM
I wouldn't say SS Goku v Freeza is a bad fight. It's more like an extended conclusion.
Base Goku v Freeza is still quite strong, and the meat of the fight. Once Goku turns Super Saiyan, Freeza shouldn't have any chance to win and going 💯 demonstrates that well.
Edited by Saiga on Dec 23rd 2018 at 10:01:43 PM
Yes, there were a dozen or so guys in the entire known universe that could do what Goku did to Vegeta, but those were all known entities. The Planet Trade Organization is the best of the best, and Vegeta's one of their elites.
Goku, meanwhile, is a third-rate loser who couldn't beat Raditz.
I'd say Vegeta's consternation still holds up even after the retcon.
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An extended conclusion is part of a fight pacing and, as a result, it does drag the whole thing down for being too long. Even in the manga, Toriyama could have cut the "power up to 100%" thing (which doesn't even make much sense), for example, to keep that portion of the fight a bit more brief. I mean, Freeza is still inferior to Goku after that anyway, so what is the point?
That said, I do agree that it is not so bad to ruin the whole fight. The first fight is still quite strong. But, even then, before Kuririn dying the fight lacked a strong motivation for Goku. The only reason he is fighting is because he is the hero and Freeza is the bad guy, it is a bit lack luster in that regard. Specially considering Goku haven't really been the protagonist for most of the arc. So, all in all, I find that fight to be a bit too disjointed to be really "good". It has plenty good moments, but it is also lacking in many regards.
Yeah, that part never makes sense. I blame power escalation. If Vegeta and Nappa were roughly on Raditz level than I could buy it. But they being so much stronger, to the point they can literally grow raditzes, makes that whole plot point nonsensical.
Edited by Heatth on Dec 23rd 2018 at 10:11:46 AM
The sequence is quite short, I don't think it drags things down. It's cool to see the pay off of the Super Saiyan build up, especially when Freeza reveals his trump card and it still doesn't measure up. That's the point of having him use 💯 even though it doesn't help - it's a subversion of the trend of a character to pull out a trump card/hidden power while losing in order to turn the tides.
And it contains more character moments like Goku deliberately letting his opponent power up for the sake of the fight, Freeza's own desire to settle things at full power, Goku's disappointment at Freeza's peak and Freeza's absolute refusal to accept any mercy.
I used to think 💯 should have been cut (partly because I didn't like Goku letting Freeza power up), but I think it's much better to have the sequence there in light of the above. Otherwise, the conclusion to the fight would just be too brief.
Edited by Saiga on Dec 23rd 2018 at 10:27:14 PM
The 2 or so minutes that 100% Freeza and SS Goku fight prior to Goku calling it off needs to be there partly for the above moments and partly because it's literally the only time in the entire second half of the arc that any two fighters are actually going teach other full force with both actually taking some damage. It's a one-sided fight, but unlike everything that came before, it's still a fight.
x6 I disagree. The sequence is long, even in the manga. The fight starts at chapter 318 and ends at chapter 327, 9 chapters. By comparison, the pre SSJ fight start at 308 and ends at 316, which is 8 chapters. That means that the least interesting part of the fight is the longer one. Admittedly, part of these chapters is Kaioh's plan and everyone being teleported to Earth but, still, that part is dragged on and I think could have been trimmed on.
Not to mention a few weird bits and inconsistencies, like Goku saying he has no time to wait for Freeza to power up in a chapter and then the next chapter he waits for it. Or when he tries to get Freeza hit by his own attack and then latter tries to warn Freeza about his own attack.
I just don't think that part of the fight works overall. Which is not to say that Goku transforming is not a great moment, because it is. But the fight that follows is a big whatever.
Edited by Heatth on Dec 23rd 2018 at 11:37:29 AM
The disconnect between Goku initially going to interrupt Freeza and then deciding to wait is definitely jarring, but not a huge deal given that Goku visibly reacts to Freeza's power when he decides he wants to see it after all
I don't think Goku was actually trying to get Freeza to cut himself, but just knew Freeza would have to dodge so he'd live himself open.
And yeah, the fight isn't really longer because other stuff is going on. If you were to trim the fight then you'd have all this stuff going on to resolve Namek while Goku is either sitting around twiddling his thumbs or fighting off-screen. He needs to be doing something to not escape Namek on time.

Or even the Galick Gun, Goku wasn't sure he could do x 3 for that long.
It's hilarious because while Vegeta is being absolutely floored by the idea that Goku is outdoing him, Goku is absolutely floored by how hard he has to push himself to do it.
Vegeta: WHY IS HE SO HARD TO KILL
Goku: WHY AM I KILLING MYSELF SO HARD
Edited by Saiga on Dec 23rd 2018 at 9:15:53 PM