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PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#34451: Dec 22nd 2018 at 5:54:06 PM

[up][up]Really? I heard he was. I even saw screenshots of his Twitter talking about him glorifying WW2 era Japan and Germany.

Edited by PushoverMediaCritic on Dec 22nd 2018 at 6:54:41 AM

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#34452: Dec 22nd 2018 at 5:56:45 PM

He's apparently said some questionable things in regards to Imperial Japan (how they "increased life expectancy in Korea" or something) and also modeled a character after a man who was apparently a war criminal he's called his hero. Or something.

Yumil Mad Archivist Since: Mar, 2016
Mad Archivist
#34453: Dec 22nd 2018 at 6:03:24 PM

Yeah but that's just a standard Values Dissonance because japan doesn't see nazism the way we do and has a real problem dealing with THEIR responsibility in WW 2 generally speaking.

But yeah calling shit on toyotaro because he doesn't write weekly is a pretty huge dick move. Life of a mangaka is apparently a living hell with 120-hours weeks of work they only put up with because they were raised being told this was the norm. Blaming someone for not killing themselves at work is eeeeeeeeeeh.

Edited by Yumil on Dec 22nd 2018 at 3:08:54 PM

"when you stare too long into the abyss, Xehanort takes advantage of the distraction to break into your house and steal all your shit."
unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#34454: Dec 22nd 2018 at 6:13:36 PM

It's horrific, honestly, but I'm petty enough to not care when it's someone I dislike?

His traced art is traced and repetitive and his untraced art is ugly.

I want someone that can fucking draw.

Yumil Mad Archivist Since: Mar, 2016
Mad Archivist
#34455: Dec 22nd 2018 at 6:14:35 PM

I'm fine with that ! But if you don't like the guy in the first place, don't ask him to draw more of his shit FASTER !

"when you stare too long into the abyss, Xehanort takes advantage of the distraction to break into your house and steal all your shit."
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#34456: Dec 22nd 2018 at 6:16:44 PM

If they had to get a doujin writer, they prolly shouldn’t have gotten the one who’s claim to fame is a doujin starring an evil clone of Goku. tongue

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
FergardStratoavis A Fluff Ringer from Bellveins (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: A gay little love melody
A Fluff Ringer
#34457: Dec 22nd 2018 at 6:20:08 PM

@Isayama: Said "war criminal" wasn't even around for WW 2 or the Nanjing Massacre. It's my understanding that Isayama is at best indifferent to Nazi imagery and has a very standard take on Imperial Japan (which, while unfortunate, seems to be a typical reaction).

Wishing a breakdown on a man based on second-hand hearsay is just unsporting though.

And to go back to Dragonball, I am wondering if there are any fights that could make the top 2 that aren't main candidates like Goku v. Vegeta (Saiyan Arc).

KarkatTheDalek Not as angry as the name would suggest. from Somwhere in Time/Space Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: You're a beautiful woman, probably
Not as angry as the name would suggest.
#34458: Dec 22nd 2018 at 6:24:40 PM

[up] I believe the war criminal accusations stem from Japan's conquest of Korea, so it would have been before that.

Oh God! Natural light!
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#34459: Dec 22nd 2018 at 6:28:24 PM

So, what have you all been thinking of their analyses of these fights? Note, that's different from whether you agree with their choices.

Edited by LSBK on Dec 22nd 2018 at 11:14:01 AM

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#34460: Dec 22nd 2018 at 6:33:15 PM

I think their breakdowns have been pretty good, they do a good job of breaking down all of the beats of a fight and why they like it. Their meta-jokes are a little tiresome, though. Occasional winking at the camera can be great, but I don't think it should be every episode. Meta-jokes kind of rely on suprise factor, and they're less impactful when you expect them.

Kamiccolo Since: May, 2018
#34461: Dec 22nd 2018 at 6:34:52 PM

[up][up]Expected but somehow also disappointing. As someone else (I think you?) noted earlier, their main criteria seems to be spectacle.

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#34462: Dec 22nd 2018 at 6:48:19 PM

Given that THIS of all Dragon Ball topics is about as subjective as all get out, I'm fine with how their analyses all stick to the rules they laid out for themselves, Number 12 excluded. Given how hard it naturally became to show how powerful most of these characters are while retaining a semblance of choreography, I don't blame them for picking the fights they have based on the animes and whatever flourishes of padding they added.

That being said, I'd like to see a similar list but limited to the manga's presentation of the fights.

Heatth (X-Troper) Relationship Status: In Spades with myself
#34463: Dec 22nd 2018 at 7:04:23 PM

So, what have you all been thinking of their analyses of these favorite fights? Note, that's different from whether you agree with their choices.

I wish they would focus more on stuff I personally care about (narrative, progression, not-animation, etc) but otherwise it is good given the format. They do talk about a variety of stuff and mention the flaws when applicable. A full analyses of most of these fights would need more than 5 or so minutes and would work better without banter between different people, but that is not the real purpose of the show.

LordVatek Not really a lord of anything Since: Sep, 2014
Not really a lord of anything
#34464: Dec 22nd 2018 at 7:05:35 PM

I don't agree with all of them but the reasoning is perfectly sound.

This song needs more love.
TheEvilDrBolty Since: Dec, 2009 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
#34465: Dec 22nd 2018 at 7:13:47 PM

I've been watching some lazy top ten videos lately, so I am very strongly appreciating that the D Bcember videos provide good support for their choices and placement. In particular, they are highlighting some of the downfalls of the fights they choose, which gives a sense that they are considering what truly matters to them in their decisions.

randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#34466: Dec 22nd 2018 at 7:18:18 PM

A top 10 or 12 of the fights in the series with the lowest of low stakes.

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#34467: Dec 22nd 2018 at 7:36:12 PM

Spectacle vs low key action reminds me of how Darth Maul's two most famous fights from The Clone Wars/Rebels were each on the opposite end.

In The Clone Wars his tag-team fight with his brother Savage Oppress against Darth Sidious was an epic choreographed drawn-out battle going from multiple rooms, Savage being killed in an over the top manor in the middle of it and as a tragic moment especially being given enough time to say his final words to his brother, and Maul entering the last leg of fight duel-wielding the darksaber only to get his ass kicked and tortured magnificently by Sidious.

In Rebels his final battle with Obi-Wan literally lasted like 3 and had just as many moves. A lot of emphasis was placed on the build-up before the fight as the two sync each other up and Maul's own desperation, and the fight was framed in the vein of old-school samurai fights where the battles are dealt with in only a few moves. For added symbolism Obi-Wan finished Maul off the same way he did the first time all those years ago. It then ends with Obi-Wan holding Maul's dying body in his arms as he comforts the man in his final moments.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#34468: Dec 22nd 2018 at 9:19:05 PM

That being said, I'd like to see a similar list but limited to the manga's presentation of the fights.

I don't think the team is familiar enough with the manga for that, but it'd be a fun thing to think about.

I'd be tempted to do that myself (in text) just to see what my own opinion is.

Edited by Saiga on Dec 23rd 2018 at 3:20:51 AM

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#34470: Dec 22nd 2018 at 9:34:35 PM

[up]What, no video of palpatine saying "jew it" or anything like that?

o disapoint it rob, just disapointed

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#34472: Dec 22nd 2018 at 9:44:35 PM

Thematic or no, the 17 and Freeza banter in the Anime version is kinda fantastic and elevates it beyond spectacle to a pretty nice character beat.

...And, whatever flaws Jiren has, in either version (...and, I do end up liking the manga version better, but also think it's not Toei's fault for once because Toriyama screwed them, hard,) the way he says "Son Goku, once again you stand before me," and his lil' smirk when his barrier shatters and the final fight begins are both fantastic.

BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#34473: Dec 22nd 2018 at 10:07:24 PM

Gonna have to disagree about the Jiren fight. I definitely wouldn't put it in my top 3, but the fight itself really does pick up once Vegeta is gone. Yes, Jiren is a brick of a character, but seeing Goku, Freeza, and 17 playing off each other trying to beat him was legitimately great since it's such a rare dynamic than Goku & Vegeta for the upteenth time.

And it's one of the rare times a fight in Super has choreography, go figure. I'll rag on Super like everyone else, but that's something I legit enjoyed and still enjoy on a rewatch despite everything leading up to it :V

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#34474: Dec 22nd 2018 at 11:18:16 PM

I think the lesson we all can learn here is that things become better once Vegeta leaves the picture. tongue

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#34475: Dec 22nd 2018 at 11:23:51 PM

...And, whatever flaws Jiren has, in either version (...and, I do end up liking the manga version better, but also think it's not Toei's fault for once because Toriyama screwed them, hard,) the way he says "Son Goku, once again you stand before me," and his lil' smirk when his barrier shatters and the final fight begins are both fantastic.

It's absolutely Toei's fault. Toriyama didn't screw them. Even though they didn't receive Jiren's personality originally, they were given it at the same time Toriyama told them not to use the personality they originally invented - the one that they gave to Toppo.

Toppo started showing his personality in episode 81. That means they must have been directed by Toriyama at this point, before Jiren even appeared on-screen. That's 16 episodes before the TOP starts, and Jiren is only shown meditating prior to that. He briefly appears in episode 100 to knock out Kale, then fights with Goku from episodes 109-110. That's twenty-eight episodes between Toppo debuting with Jiren's original personality and Jiren having a major role. And after beating hit in 111, there's another 11 episodes until he enters the foreground again to fight Vegeta.

They had a ridiculous amount of time to be prepared, it's entirely on them for not being able to come up with anything or work in the details provided by Toriyama earlier. Given that this was their main antagonist for a 55 episode story arc, they sure as hell could have dedicated more focus to fleshing him out.

If we'd found out that Toriyama didn't give them any details until much later in the arc and told them not to come up with anything, that would be screwing them. But he gave it too them so early.

Edited by Saiga on Dec 23rd 2018 at 5:24:44 AM


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