![]()
Goku was training in those five years. He tells Piccolo as much, that's why they're still equals both before and after the timeskip when Piccolo was training like a demon. Also, according to the Super manga (every panel checked and some outwrite written/drawn by Toriyama, remember) Goku wasn't even around for Gohan's birth because he was off training.
Pretty sure all those pictures of them laughing and smiling are anime-exclusive, ditto just about every scene of Goku liking Chi-Chi. The biggest example that springs to mind is the scene where Goku recovers from the heart virus. In the anime
Goku gets up and appears to kiss Chi-Chi while hugging her and throwing her into the air, while in the manga he just neutrally acknowledges her before getting on his gi and telling her "I'm going to go train Gohan now", brushing off her concerns about him needing more rest.
Edited by Kamiccolo on Dec 22nd 2018 at 1:31:19 AM
When Toyotaro hands in the manga for Toriyama to check, Toriyama probably reads it like a flipbook, stamps it, then throws it back in Toyotaro's face. Toyotaro then takes it into a private room to masturbate all over it in response to Toriyama-sensei-senpai's approval.
Edited by PushoverMediaCritic on Dec 22nd 2018 at 2:10:23 AM
![]()
Nah. While we have no evidence of any real contribution from him on EOB, he checks
◊ every chapter
◊ of the Super manga and goes so far as to rewrite/redraw pages for reference or correct details as tiny as 18's hair or Kaioshin's reaction in a certain shot. He's very picky about his characters and what's allowed in. To assert that he'd correct a small detail implying a romantic relationship of a bit character like Marcarita yet also allow Toyotaro to make up something so vital for the relationship of the main character and his wife is a bit silly.
It's consistent with the way Goku was presented in the manga too where he literally never gave a shit about Chi-Chi beyond basic courtesey and barely said two sentences to her after recovering from his heart virus. Toriyama himself said Goku has no sense of family
and no interest in fatherhood.
He just views Chi-Chi and Gohan as friends. You need only see the anime version of the same scene to see how drastically different Toei and Toriyama portray this character.
Edited by Kamiccolo on Dec 22nd 2018 at 1:30:34 AM
Toriyama is reviewing the Super manga, but he clearly has different priorities when writing now compared to then. Super is written very differently, and he's pretty openly said that he writes Goku differently now in response to Toei misinterpreting his character.
As people had already pointed out, he goes too far for that and Super Goku doesn't feel like the same character as the original.
While I like some of the anime's additions, they don't really do it in a way that feels like the original Goku either. And they also exaggerated his stupidity and jerkishness in other scenes, so overall they're not really better so much as inconsistent.
Stuff like Goku missing Gohan's birth is kind of understandable, though - Goku was raised with very little education, he may just not understand the importance of that. It's still pretty annoying though.
Agreed, although there's even more turn offs about that arc than just Jiren's character for me. But while watching these episodes, I realized that I just felt nothing during the fight.
![]()
![]()
hyperbole like this doesn't make your arguments look reasonable or credible.
You just come across as vindicative and biased.
in what way is Marcarita and Belmoud's relationship about dialogue?
We've also got Toyotarou mentioning that Toriyama is picky with his gags above all else, which this falls squarely under.
Edited by Saiga on Dec 22nd 2018 at 7:23:20 PM
![]()
There are several dialogue changes on that page though? Like the Ribrianne and Marcarita/Belmond scenes? Plus the art he changes all seem designed to tell us something about the characters (my favorite subtle change of his was changing a panel in 18 vs Ribrianne so the former is beginning to get up rather than being knocked down flat).
My favorite "Filler Goku" scene is when he leaves a half-dead teenager in crippling pain bleeding out with several broken bones so he can eat more food, when he was supposed to be grabbing the senzus.
Edited by Kamiccolo on Dec 22nd 2018 at 1:27:03 AM
But Toriyama's reasoning was specifically about the characters. Calling that artwork is just incorrect.
This is a decent defence for Toei's 'Superman' portrayal of Goku because man they're bad at portraying his more selfish side.
Edited by Saiga on Dec 22nd 2018 at 7:25:03 PM
![]()
If you look closely in the collages posted, you can see Toriyama changed the dialogue in that scene too. The main visual change is that Marcarita is now standing off to the side while in Toyotaro's original she was feeding Belmond grapes (replaced by a generic harlequin looking chick in the corrected version). The corrected version also adds another character moment for Belmond with him Hakai'ing one of the planet's inhabitants for insulting Marcarita (which roughly matches the scene's original intention, that the power trio of this universe get along great and like each other, as opposed to the Servile Snarker relationship of Vados/Champa or The Chew Toy position Shin occupies with Beerus).
Toriyama also added dialogue to scenes that originally didn't have any like the exterior shot of the arena.
Edited by Kamiccolo on Dec 22nd 2018 at 1:34:32 AM
Given that we have had multiple interviews on the matter pointing out that Toriyama is closely involved in the supervision, trying to argue that he has only a surface level involvement just seems like denial.
It feels like an attempt to discredit Toyotarou or make out like he's not really in line with Toriyama's vision, or that Toriyama is too good to have any responsibility for the manga's perceived flaws.
How long has it been since the movie was mentioned?
Yeesh.
Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.Again, I don't see why people thought Gohan ever cared about his family in the first place beyond the bare minimum of taking action when they're in immediate danger in his immediate vicinity (which I feel like he would do with anyone). Another big example of Toei changing Toriyama's work to "normalize" Goku (though not as telling as the scene where he recovers from the heart virus) is the scene where he meets Goten. In the manga
◊ he just points at Goten and says "That's my son? He looks like me", and that's it. He proceeds to walk past him to register for the tournament. In the anime this happens.
Edited by Kamiccolo on Dec 22nd 2018 at 1:48:09 AM
That's pretty cute.
He does look just like him.
Edited by randomness4 on Dec 22nd 2018 at 2:18:26 AM
Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.Hotter take:
I'm gonna make Dragonball Re-Evolution.
It will be the best live action interpretation of a animated work since M. Night Shamaylan's Last Airbender movie.
...I win.
I am a bit late, but I wanted to say I fully agree with everything Tobias said last page. I will add, though I haven't read Super, that Goku was never really a good family man, or even friend, in old Dragon Ball. He clearly loves the people around him but we never seem he putting any effort whatsoever in these relationships. Much the opposite, we have been explicitly told he goes years without ever contacting his friends. We also know that he never talked with Chichi, his wife, about his decision of staying dead after Cell. Toriyama may have decided to focus more on that aspect of the character in Super, to make it more explicit, but it was always there, it is not a new development.
About the latest video. Gotta admit, they sold me on this one. Without having seem it by myself, I can't say for sure, of course, but it does sound quite good.
Edited by Heatth on Dec 22nd 2018 at 10:12:15 AM

Vegeta never even hugged Trunks until he had decided to kill himself. Goku hugs Gohan all the time and the first thing he and Goten did together was hug.