Chichi is a warlord princess. The money ended by the time of Buu saga, but presumably they still had enough when Gohan and maybe Goten were born. Not to mention universal healthcare. I don't think we ever heard anyone discussing hospital costs, even after the Sayan arc (though I guess Bulma could have taken care of it).
That said, I fully agree. Random mountain midwife seem more in line with their lifestyle.
I think that is covered in super sayan lesbians? Which, btw, was the only part of the super anime I was ever actually interested in.
Edited by Heatth on Dec 20th 2018 at 12:16:51 PM
I guess the basic core plot is the same, ish, and she's responsible for it, but like.
Also 100% disagree on Krillin and Ten being used badly in the manga, they actually had a purpose there and didn't waste hours of our time on filler. It's just one of many examples in the TOP of how bad Toei's writing is and how grossly they misunderstand the series: they saw the humans' inclusion in a plot draft that apparently didn't have a single fight for them in it, and took that to mean "we should have six episodes of them fighting worthless plot irrelevant fodder." This is almost as big of a total misfire as the conclusion of the arc.
The only big thing Toei did better, imo, was the end of the Zamasu arc. Which is incidentally probably the most worthwhile thing in all of Super.
Edited by Kamiccolo on Dec 20th 2018 at 7:05:13 AM
@unnoun I'm glad you're enjoying that blog. There's a lot more to it than just Super manga criticism, though. A lot of the blog is dedicated to talking about how great Krillin, 18, and their relationship is.
Yo, if you're talking about the Spirit Bomb Sword, I am fucking SHOOK right now.
Edited by PushoverMediaCritic on Dec 20th 2018 at 7:52:29 AM
No, that was schlock. It's everything after the Zamasu fight. I found a rather
good
analysis of the ending on Kanzenshuu so I'll just post bits of the shorter version:
Trunks' time travel is one of the elements that allows Zamasu to carry out his plans, which both Black and Future Zamasu taunt him with, but in the face of their (largely unfair, but somewhat accurate) accusations, Trunks stands up for the morality of his actions regardless of how they've chosen to use the world he created. Once his timeline is erased, at his lowest ebb of self-confidence, in which he's bemoaning his inability to save the world his Gohan entrusted him with, he's seen off by a version of Gohan who, thanks to his actions, has gotten to live the life his couldn't. He's seen off by Vegeta, by Goku, by Bulma—all people who can and should be dead, but are alive and thriving thanks to him. The goodness and optimism of his actions, imperfect a solution as they may offer, carry over into his and Mai's decision to introduce the same cosmic second chance to the friends they knew in their future. The "Hope!!" on the side of that time machine has never meant more than when it's presented as a shorthand for all imperfect, inconvenient ways of doing what good one can.
The manga maintains the same basic ending but doesn't present it as well. Zamasu isn't as believable as a multiversal threat, Trunks doesn't seem as traumatized, Gohan isn't there, etc.
Edited by Kamiccolo on Dec 20th 2018 at 7:02:24 AM
My favorite scene in the entire Zamasu storyline is the one where Trunks meets 18 again, for exactly that reason. He's confused about his feelings on what became of Gohan in this timeline, and that as the capper to that subplot shows that he has changed things for the better in his own way.
Much as I like Super's dub, I always felt they missed out by delivering that scene entirely for humor as apposed to keeping that small heartfelt bit in there. That entire series of episodes is basically Trunks bouncing off the past in different ways and learning things, and it's pretty decent at it.
Edited by KnownUnknown on Dec 20th 2018 at 7:11:39 AM
The core battles of U7 vs U11 were in there
(so probably Jiren vs Vegeta, Jiren vs Goku rounds 1-3, Jiren vs Freeza, Jiren vs Freeza/Goku, Jiren vs Goku/Vegeta, Toppo vs Goku, and Toppo vs Vegeta). And of course the climax. Judging by how closely they matched between versions, I'm willing to bet the main fights involving Damon/Gamisaras, Frost, Ribrianne, and Hit were described as well. Especially since they tie in closely to 18 and Piccolo's eliminations, and it was said that Toriyama detailed who Piccolo lost to (plus we know Toriyama partially wrote/drew at least three pages of Ribrianne vs 18 in the manga, he really seemed to care about it... and Hit vs Jiren is so Toriyama that it's a cliche).
So in other words the fights for the relevant characters were in there. As for the others... well, Toriyama did say he wrote "they all fight in a big jumble" in the draft, so he probably just didn't care. Hence the vastly different directions the anime and manga go for all but the main plot relevant fights (even Gohan's power up and elimination seem to have been described in pretty broad strokes).
Edited by Kamiccolo on Dec 21st 2018 at 12:32:42 PM
wait so I'm confused.
1.Krillin and tien are better used in the manga than the anime.
2.The anime was wrong for giving them fights against fodders.
The implication being the manga used them better by making them doing... Nothing of value ? How do both of the statements work in the same phrase ? I guess they lose in a meaningful way but then why is the anime wrong for giving them a fight, again ?
Edited by Yumil on Dec 21st 2018 at 1:54:02 PM
"when you stare too long into the abyss, Xehanort takes advantage of the distraction to break into your house and steal all your shit."Honestly, it sounds like both adaptations missed the mark to me. The anime was a series of mini-matches between small numbers of combatants while the manga had stronger characters wipe out weaker ones in droves. It was never really an all out jumble in either version.
Edited by Zeromaeus on Dec 21st 2018 at 8:11:31 AM
The thing is, realistically, the humans would be stronger than fodder. Mortals beyond Freeza, or even on Freeza's tier, would be exceptional rather than the rule. If the humans got to the level of Nail or named Namekian antagonists, well, they'd be stronger than most of Universe 7.
They'd be canon fodder anyway, but, so are most of the participants: Only Toppo seemed to be on Goku/Vegeta/Freeza's level, and only Jiren was beyond them. Kale had the Broly hax of raw output, but all in all she, like Hit, was not on equal grounding to the endgame fighters.
Still thinking the optimal way would be having Krillin and Tien get on a fight with some rando from Gowasu's or Sidra's universes, just for Frost to anticlimatically punt both out of the ring.
The issue with the battle royale format is this:
If Jiren & not even just Jiren, even any fighter of similar strength were to flex their pecs or sneeze, 90 to 95% of the contestants would be out just like that (finger-snap).
The arena is too small & crowded to stack up low-tier fighters with high-tier fighters. Most of them never had a chance of making it beyond just a couple of minutes.
Edited by slimcoder on Dec 21st 2018 at 5:17:48 AM
"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."And actually depicting a Battle Royal would never be satisfying to everyone, for basically the opposite reasons both the anime and manga approaches have been criticized for. Simple fact is the idea was a bad one to make, especially when Toriyama couldn't even think to make more combatants other that Jiren and Toppo threats to Goku and Vegeta.
x7 Excuse me but even I can see that this argument is utter bullshit.
This runs on the assumption that literally everyone else in the To P is stronger than them. Which is a weird thing to assume, since those universes aren't stated to have naturally stronger fighters than universe 7, right ? In fact, the only real challenger to 7 during the To P is universe 11. How is making the assumption that not a single universe aside from u11 has fighters stronger than them not only reasonable, but the go-to reasoning ? Those guys are still some of the strongest fighters of their universe.
Especially, as noted by someone else, that didn't stopped roshi to have a little bout with Jiren of all people even though he should be even more outclassed than those two.
And even if it was the case, that's still not good use of them. That's a pragmatic decision to not use them if you want, but not good use.
And last thing, doesn't both of them get ringed out sorely to hype up frost, who proceeds to completely no-sell a kikoho ? Like, i'm not the resident DBZ loreman, but I was under the impression that the very concept of the kikoho is that it's ridiculously unefficient in terms of energy use, but the thing is so massive that even if it doesn't scratch you and there's a massive power difference, it pushes you back. That's like the entire premise of tenshinan stalling semi-perfect cell back in Z.
I could buy with reticence that someone like Jiren could no sell that, but frost isn't that strong from what I read in the manga. Like, freeza trashes him around for funsies right after.
Edited by Yumil on Dec 21st 2018 at 2:34:23 PM
"when you stare too long into the abyss, Xehanort takes advantage of the distraction to break into your house and steal all your shit."I mean sure but then i'm not gonna blame the anime for making the arc long so that it can do a bit of justice to the fighters in the tournament. Don't make a battle royale of 80 people with a significant chunk we already care about rather than no-names, if you want your arc to last 16 chapters tops.
Edited by Yumil on Dec 21st 2018 at 2:37:08 PM
"when you stare too long into the abyss, Xehanort takes advantage of the distraction to break into your house and steal all your shit."The thing is, people saying that the humans should have fought randos clearly never watched the anime because THEY DID. Krillin fought two gimmick fighters: one who can play dead and the other who's blind and can smell the locations of his opponents. Neither Shosa nor Majora were implied to be super strong, and Krillin's involvement with the Shosa fight basically amounted to an assist.
Tenshinhan's big fight was against a sniper who had very powerful ki beams, but no strength aside from them. Tenshinhan's fight was about just trying to get close to the guy to take him out.
Roshi had a few big fights. He fought Cawei, who was a weakling compensating with ki weapons. He fought Darkori, who used illusions and talismans and Roshi only beat her with a Mafuba. He fought the team leader of U4, Ganos. Thing is, Ganos was also shown to be weak in comparison to fighters like Goku. He was only a potential threat because in his transformed state, he had the ability to grow stronger over time. Roshi took Ganos out before Ganos could grow into a major threat, which was a fantastic way for Roshi to contribute meaningfully to the team without having him punch way above his level (see: Roshi vs Jiren in the manga).
Roshi had one more fight, where he teamed up with Vegeta against Frost and Magetta, but Vegeta did all of the actual fighting while Roshi stood on the sidelines.

I stopped taking Dragon Ball seriously ages ago. I'm just along for the insanity like Gogeta vs. Broly, Evil Goku, Super Saiyan Lesbians, and Good Guy Frieza.
This song needs more love.