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Heatth (X-Troper) Relationship Status: In Spades with myself
#33976: Dec 17th 2018 at 2:02:02 PM

Not the manga version, the manga version's too short and off-panel

Ah, I was confused about that. I have basically no memory about that fight at all and was wondering why the hell it made up to the list. Since it is not in the manga, I likely only watched it a couple of times, if that much, when I was 12 or something, so I don't remember.

That said, I do have some memories of the anime. In particular things I really liked or that annoyed me. I am pretty sure I didn't actually care for that fight as a kid.

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#33977: Dec 17th 2018 at 2:03:28 PM

I don't care for it now. Not even because of the Super Saiyan 3 retcon, but because I could not get invested in Vegeta's tantrum.

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#33978: Dec 17th 2018 at 2:34:26 PM

[up][up][up] Yeah, when Vegeta accuses him if holding back in his fight, Goku says that he didn't use it to preserve his time on Earth.

BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#33979: Dec 17th 2018 at 3:02:03 PM

It was one of my favorite fights in the entire series tbh.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#33980: Dec 17th 2018 at 3:20:25 PM

Just caught the video.

It's kinda funny to think that for all Vegeta's frustration at Goku surpassing him, as pointed out by TFS Goku has never actually beaten him one on one.

The first fight was group effort as we've all pointed out (you could argue that Vegeta won the fight, but lost the overall battle), and this one ended with Vegeta cold-cocking Goku when he was distracted (which is also a technical win, though that's a big stretch).

Toriyama: A man who subverts expectations. Sometimes it works.

Y'know, going back to a previous conversation about how magic works in Dragon Ball, Babidi's Mind Control is another example of how magic is limited by power level. Babidi was able to boost Vegeta's power because Vegeta let him, but Vegeta also resisted the mind control aspect by just being that powerful.

Much like Shenron's wish-granting, Babidi's magic could only influence Vegeta in the ways that he permitted because Vegeta was too strong to enchant against his will.

Huh, I always attributed it to willpower more than Power Level. I mean, if the magic can be overcome just by being stronger, than Dabura should have been able to do it as well That being said, your statement is consistent with how things might work.

It seems power really does trump everything...but to be fair, that's true for real life. Hit something hard enough, it breaks, even if it's made to be super tough. Put enough power into anything, and you can do anything.

One Strip! One Strip!
WillKeaton from Alberta, Canada Since: Jun, 2010
#33981: Dec 17th 2018 at 3:24:22 PM

Did Dabura ever NEED to overcome Babidi's magic? I seem to recall him volunteering for this job and I don't think Babidi ever used said magic to make Dabura do anything against his will. The only time they disagreed on anything was after Buu was revivied, and by that point Babidi had Buu, so when they did disagree he sicked the fat blob on him instead of using his mind control.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#33982: Dec 17th 2018 at 3:25:38 PM

Dabura was able to resist Babidi's commands, by trying to kill Buu when he realized how dangerous Buu was. He justified it as him only acting in Babibi's best interests, but he still directly went against what Babidi was telling him to do.

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#33983: Dec 17th 2018 at 3:31:11 PM

But the thing is though, Babidi is weak without his magic. Supreme Kai says as much. So if just being stronger than him lets you resist, then literally everyone he tries to control should be able to do it, unless all of them are in it just for the power.

One Strip! One Strip!
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#33984: Dec 17th 2018 at 3:33:37 PM

Vegeta's also a lot stronger than Dabra, even before Babidi released his potential.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#33985: Dec 17th 2018 at 3:33:53 PM

Guess it depends on how strong Babidi's magic is. Like how the Kamehameha has a higher power level than its user, how weak is Babidi's power level comparatively and how strong is his magic's power level?

unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#33986: Dec 17th 2018 at 3:40:51 PM

What if Babidi made you too strong to control you?

Y'know, like how the Androids worked, for the reason Gero made them progressively weaker?

Kamiccolo Since: May, 2018
#33987: Dec 17th 2018 at 5:52:14 PM

Kaioshin was surprised that Babidi was "powerful" enough to control Dabra, and obviously his powers didn't work against fat Buu despite his weak and childlike mind, so there is a component of raw power to resisting his magic. Not just mind control, but he also can't seem to, say, make a person explode at will if they're too powerful. I think Demigra's magic works the same way in Xenoverse.

Edited by Kamiccolo on Dec 17th 2018 at 5:52:43 AM

unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#33988: Dec 17th 2018 at 5:58:20 PM

I mean, maybe Dabura just honestly liked Babidi.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#33989: Dec 17th 2018 at 6:02:39 PM

Demigra's magic not working on Goku was attributed to him having become a Super Saiyan God, so maybe it doesn't work on those with Godly Ki.

ultimatepheer Since: Mar, 2011
#33990: Dec 17th 2018 at 7:28:08 PM

Goku states that he can't be mind controlled because he became a god once. In a single throwaway line, because Xenoverse had stopped caring about the plot entirely in favor of punching a guy in cosplay a bajillion times in weird shenanigan space.

Moth13 Since: Sep, 2010
#33991: Dec 17th 2018 at 7:31:16 PM

I like to think Vegeta resisting Babidi is down to having a maxed out Pride stat, instead of a maxed out Power stat.

Edited by Moth13 on Dec 17th 2018 at 10:31:33 AM

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#33992: Dec 17th 2018 at 7:35:05 PM

Yeah. I really think that Vegeta just willpowered his way through it because he was just that hell bent on fighting Goku.

And in a weird way, he was still doing what Babidi wanted anyway, in that fighting Goku got him the energy needed to revive Buu.

One Strip! One Strip!
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#33993: Dec 17th 2018 at 7:36:06 PM

I thought we already knew it was willpower via SAIYAN PRIDE! that let him do it.

Edited by LSBK on Dec 17th 2018 at 9:36:15 AM

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#33994: Dec 17th 2018 at 7:44:37 PM

Well, some were trying to say it was just that he's got a higher power level.

Considering Toriyama is pretty open about that thing (stronger dude wins, hands down), if that was the case, he'd have said Vegeta could fight off the mind control because of his higher power level.

He doesn't pull punches when it comes to things like that.

One Strip! One Strip!
Moth13 Since: Sep, 2010
#33995: Dec 17th 2018 at 7:48:01 PM

[up][up]Oh gotcha. It's been a while since I saw that episode.

thok That's Dr. Title, thank you! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Non-Canon
That's Dr. Title, thank you!
#33996: Dec 17th 2018 at 7:52:15 PM

I'll just point out that Super has given us a couple of sort of but not actually rematches (Goku versus Copy Vegeta, and Vegeta versus Goku Black.)

Moth13 Since: Sep, 2010
#33997: Dec 17th 2018 at 7:55:51 PM

Well, Goku vs Brian Drummond ended inconclusively. Goku Black did get the better of Vegeta at least once though.

Kamiccolo Since: May, 2018
#33998: Dec 17th 2018 at 8:07:11 PM

Vegeta beat Ginyu-Goku and Goku Black (until Zamasu intervened, even then he beat him the next time they fought) so if you count them it's 4-0.

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#33999: Dec 17th 2018 at 8:16:14 PM

So since TFS has there thing, what's all of your favorite fight(s)?

LordVatek Not really a lord of anything Since: Sep, 2014
Not really a lord of anything
#34000: Dec 17th 2018 at 8:55:55 PM

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