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Dragon Ball Z Abridged

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Kamiccolo Since: May, 2018
#33726: Dec 10th 2018 at 12:31:17 AM

Goku: "Vegeta! Are you alright?"

Vegeta: "I have... a fucking HOLE... in my chest. Why didn't you block that one!?

Goku: "I thought you had it!"

Vegeta: (mix of agony and frustration) "NO!"

Edited by Kamiccolo on Dec 10th 2018 at 12:33:24 PM

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#33727: Dec 10th 2018 at 7:21:42 AM

  • Goku: Come on. You deserve a proper burial.
  • Frieza: Oh yes, a proper burial: an unmarked grave on an empty planet in the middle of nowhere space. Honestly, I'd say it's too good for him.
  • Goku: I'll make sure to give Freezer one for you, best buddy. (stands up) Goodbye.
  • Frieza:
  • Goku: I don't know. I went to Hell once. The only real bad parts were these two-oiled up German guys trying to wrestle me.
  • Frieza: ...are you real?
  • Goku: But now, I know what I have to do. I have to stop you! You're a heartless monster who kills everyone in his way! Even children!
  • Frieza: Oh please, everyone's always on about the children. I already tried leaving them alive, but all they do is grow up under my rule or dedicate their pathetic lives to revenge. Usually both. Really, killing them is a kindness. I can retract that kindness if you wish. But then who's the villain?
  • Goku: ...you.
  • Frieza: N-No. That was a rhetorical question.
  • Goku: And I gave you a rhetorical answer.
  • Frieza: Good lord, I traded Vegeta for this.

Never has anyone deserved Goku so much as Frieza. Goku consistently being too stupid to understand Frieza's too-clever attempts at being intimidating and steadily bringing the high-and-mighty real estate CEO down to his level out of sheer frustration and outrage was delightful.

Even before Goku was actually able to beat him as a Super Saiyan, he still managed to bring about a hilarious Villainous Breakdown from Frieza just by being Goku. And this exchange was what started it all.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Yumil Mad Archivist Since: Mar, 2016
Mad Archivist
#33728: Dec 10th 2018 at 7:54:04 AM

Nah, what started it is the "Awesome ! I'mma deck you in the schnoz !" - "I-I'm sorry, this is a new one.".

But yeah, that exchange is great. I love the "then who's the villain ? -... You." part. because it's so damn true.

Edited by Yumil on Dec 10th 2018 at 4:55:39 PM

"when you stare too long into the abyss, Xehanort takes advantage of the distraction to break into your house and steal all your shit."
Rytex Your Friend on the Other Side from Here, There, Everywhere (Ancient one) Relationship Status: Married to the music
Your Friend on the Other Side
#33729: Dec 10th 2018 at 8:04:03 AM

This one, no contest.

  • Bulma: So hey, like just gonna throw this out there. You're really cute.
  • Trunks: Well, you know, my mom always said I was a cute kid.
  • Bulma: Oh a momma's boy huh? I'll be your mommy. (winks)
  • Trunks: (Strained smile) (thinking) AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHH!!!
  • Krillin: Can I have another Hetap?
  • Trunks: (hysterically) YES! YES YOU CAN!

The powerful play goes on, and you may contribute a verse.
unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#33730: Dec 10th 2018 at 8:14:51 AM

I love "Good Lord, I traded. Vegeta for this" a lot on its own merits, honestly.

Like. If Vegeta became a Legendary Super Saiyan and beat Frieza, he'd still be mad about it, obviously.

But Freeza knows Vegeta, and more importantly he understands Vegeta, on a certain level. They're similar as people. They're spoiled brats and princes, (or, sons of kings, anyways, Frieza never gets called a Prince,) and they have a relationship that goes back years.

And Goku just comes out of nowhere.

One of my favorite things about Freeza in Super is how he almost seems to have PTSD flashbacks not even of anything else that day, but of the time Goku spared him, specifically.

That's the most upsetting, the most galling thing about Goku for him. He says of Gohan "The boy has a soft heart, just like his father" in Resurrection F with no small amount of contempt.

If Vegeta beat him or killed him, with ruthlessness and vengeance, he'd hate every single second of it, but he's still be able to get it, on some level. It still fits his worldview, more or less.

But the fact that Goku cares about his friends, keeps his promises even to people he hates, and does so much stupid, foolish, naive shit that Freeza can't even comprehend is.

Like, in a certain sense, Vegeta's history with Freeza and similarities make their dynamic compelling, but the comparitive lack of history between Goku and Freeza, and the degree to which they are antithetical to each other is honestly almost more interesting in some respects.

It's also sorta kinda why I think Gohan beating Cell is fundamentally more interesting in terms of story structure, because of Cell's similarities to Goku.

Whatever else I wanna say about what happens with Gohan's character after the Cell Games, Gohan being the hero at that moment is Perfect.

I saw some fans who want Goku to finally beat Cell at some point, and I hate it and them more than almost anything.

...Honestly, I have that problem with some of the Z filler in Hell, or GT in the Hell Saga.

Cell is a problem that Goku sorta created, and in some sense he is Goku, but ultimately, putting him up against Goku is just not all that interesting.

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#33731: Dec 10th 2018 at 8:23:34 AM

If Vegeta beat him or killed him, with ruthlessness and vengeance, he'd hate every single second of it, but he's still be able to get it, on some level. It still fits his worldview, more or less.

But the fact that Goku cares about his friends, keeps his promises even to people he hates, and does so much stupid, foolish, naive shit that Freeza can't even comprehend is.

Like, in a certain sense, Vegeta's history with Freeza and similarities make their dynamic compelling, but the comparitive lack of history between Goku and Freeza, and the degree to which they are antithetical to each other is honestly almost more interesting in some respects.

It's also sorta kinda why I think Gohan beating Cell is fundamentally more interesting in terms of story structure, because of Cell's similarities to Goku.

Whatever else I wanna say about what happens with Gohan's character after the Cell Games, Gohan being the hero at that moment is Perfect.

I can buy all of this.

One Strip! One Strip!
unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#33732: Dec 10th 2018 at 8:35:29 AM

I mean, I also sorta love that Freeza always says "Goku" instead of "Kakarot" too, honestly.

Before Super, I dunno that I could have pinpointed exactly what it was about the Frieza and Goku dynamic that appealed to me so much more, but DBZA, for all that it's comedic, and the focus is more on Goku's stupidity, sorta presaged or hinted or suggested it?

Like, it's not exactly the same, in DBZA its more about things Goku does that are actually stupid, while in DBS it's about things Goku does that are good, and therefore Freeza perceives to be or considers stupid.

But it's a similar dynamic, and I genuinely love and adore it.

TFS also wrote Mecha Freeza having Goku-related PTSD flashbacks and I like that too.

In DBS, Frieza's trauma is Goku sparing him, in DBZA it's Goku being dumb and thinking about Pizza.

Now, you can definitely tell which is abridged and which is real, but the TFS guys are actually good at identifying these character relationships.

Edited by unnoun on Dec 10th 2018 at 12:04:23 PM

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#33733: Dec 10th 2018 at 10:02:05 AM

Yeah, I can agree with all of that. If Frieza has to lose, he would at least want it to be from someone he respected. OG Goku's compassion and Abridged Goku's aggravating idiocy add insult to the injury of being beaten in the first place.

Had it been Vegeta that defeated him, Frieza probably wouldn't be traumatized by the loss the way he is with Goku. But he just can't fathom why someone so weak-minded and morally simplistic (in his view) could actually pull it off. It doesn't make any sense. He was never supposed to lose to anyone, of course, but he absolutely was never supposed to lose to that.

Namek was a bad trip for everyone, and that includes Frieza. He was going about his day committing genocide for personal gain when somehow all of his best men were killed, a handful of harmlessly weak peasants conspired to steal his immortality wish from him, and then the Universe's Most Powerful Dimwit emerged fully-formed out of f*cking nowhere to wreck his shit.

"Daddy, I don't want to be on Namek anymore," pretty much sums up the entire arc.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Dec 10th 2018 at 11:05:24 AM

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#33734: Dec 10th 2018 at 11:40:31 AM

I think if Freeza got wasted by Beerus, like. He'd think it was unfair, he always tried to be polite and respectful like his daddy told him, but ultimately. Needing the God of Destruction to take you out isn't the worst thing for the ego.

"Watch him closely and you'll see his attacks are deliberately non-lethal. The boy has a soft heart, like his father! Despite all my heinous provocations on Namek, Goku still couldn't will himself to destroy me! He's a noble man of great moral clarity...so pure, IT MAKES ME WANT TO VOMIT!"

Like, we talk a lot about flaws in Goku's morality, and it's broadly true.

But equally. Frieza wasn't there for any of that.

Goku gave Freeza energy, to live, to survive, to "learn the value of life" and for no other reason. Frieza couldn't fight anymore, couldn't be a strong opponent, any of it.

Toriyama may not like some of the stuff Toei and Funi do, making Goku too righteous and selfish, but.

Toriyama is the person who wrote Goku helping Turtle just because Turtle needed help, and he's the one who wrote "A Saiyan from Earth sent to defeat you" and "a pure heart awakened by rage" and "Survive... And maybe you'll learn the value of life!"

Like, maybe "Hope of the universe" is a bit too far, but. Equally, in that moment, Goku vs. Freeza, I also still think it works, and more than that I think it might almost be true. Again, in that moment.

The more Toriyama tries to overcorrect away from that line, the less in-character it is.

Goku's just a guy who loves to fight, more than anything, but, perhaps paradoxically, doesn't actually like people getting hurt.

There's a (admittedly probably arbitrary and selfish) distinction between "hurt" and "injured" or "killed" that Goku can make and Gohan never really does.

When Gohan fights, he also tries to torture his opponents, with as much cruelty as the Demon King who taught him.

...People say that Saiyans are worse, eviler than humans, but. I'm not sure that's even true in Dragon Ball.

Vegeta specifically is pretty evil, but he's also more evil than, say, Nappa. Which is maybe weird to say and not obvious with the fact that Nappa kills more of our heroes than Vegeta does, but it's also true, I think.

Nappa cares about his Saibamen, and he hates Kakarot for being a traitor to their people, he wants to bring Raditz back at first.

He's a brute and a murderer, and he likes to fight, but. Like, by comparison? He's not honestly that much worse than someone like Tao Pai Pai or General Blue. He's just doing his job, and as his Prince commands.

The "just following orders" defense doesn't hold up for much, but. It's still honestly worthwhile to compare and contrast with Vegeta, who gave those orders.

The Nameless Namekian was corrupted by the evils in humanity, and in Universe 6, the Twin Universe of Universe 7, with a higher Mortal Level, Earth and all Earthlings are extinct. Not because of anything external, they wiped themselves out.

...Like, Abridged Gohan definitely gets the sadism from Chichi. Which, is worrisome for Dende and Videl.

...At least Dende can grow stuff back. I guess.

...Anyway. Goku sparing Vegeta was selfish, and him wanting Kid Buu to come back was probably largely because he wanted a good fight, but. He wanted Kid Buu back as a good person. And he spares Freeza and Fat Buu seemingly ultimately because it's the right thing to do.

...Goku's also pretty passive and kind of a loner compared to a lot of characters in fiction, so he keeps to himself a lot. He can keep to a status quo for years and not make any effort to change it.

But I do think that ultimately, there is a goodness to Goku, under everything, after everything, even with everything else in mind.

Edited by unnoun on Dec 10th 2018 at 3:15:56 PM

Yumil Mad Archivist Since: Mar, 2016
Mad Archivist
#33735: Dec 10th 2018 at 12:14:22 PM

unnoun's posts are the best part of this thread. I kinda wish I stumbled here sooner.

Edited by Yumil on Dec 10th 2018 at 9:14:38 PM

"when you stare too long into the abyss, Xehanort takes advantage of the distraction to break into your house and steal all your shit."
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#33736: Dec 10th 2018 at 12:35:03 PM

I think Goku summarized his own character best himself, in Super (starts at 2:25):

unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#33737: Dec 10th 2018 at 12:37:36 PM

...Is it wrong that part of me wishes more of fandom would explore how Gohan's anger issues and sadistic tendencies seen with Cell and Buu could play out with his relationship with Videl?

Like. Does he need therapy for it, or?

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#33738: Dec 10th 2018 at 12:39:42 PM

By the way, whenever I hear "the Nameless Namekian was corrupted by the evils of humanity" I imagine the Nameless Namekian gambling, drinking, and doing drugs in a casino, and I always find it amusing.

ultimatepheer Since: Mar, 2011
#33739: Dec 10th 2018 at 12:42:34 PM

[up][up]I mean maybe, but I'm not sure what you're getting at regarding said anger issues.

unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#33740: Dec 10th 2018 at 12:43:52 PM

Even Piccolo notes how Gohan toys with opponents instead of killing them right away because he wants them to suffer.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#33741: Dec 10th 2018 at 12:47:27 PM

I think Gohan's anger issues and sadistic tendencies are two separate personality traits. The former is just something inherent to who he is as a person, and it's tied to his hidden reserves of strength. The latter is a result of an inferiority complex and pent-up frustration built up by traumatic events all throughout his childhood, otherwise known as "the Saiyan, Freeza, Android, and Cell Sagas".

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#33742: Dec 10th 2018 at 1:28:00 PM

The only instance of that I can think of is the Cell arc, when Gohan's overwhelmed by Super Saiyan 2. I've always found that to be consistent with Goku being initially overcome by his first Super Saiyan transformation and indicating that he might lose control of his senses and attack Gohan.

The Super Saiyan form seems to amplify a Saiyan's natural hostility and bloodlust. Gohan achieved Super Saiyan 2 by combining his own rage boosts with the Super Saiyan form, so that's two separate sources of f*ckmurder rage. Gohan kinda turning evil for a bit after speedballing his own anger issues with a double shot of Saiyan bloodthirst never really struck me as unusual or out-of-character.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Dec 10th 2018 at 2:29:02 AM

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#33743: Dec 10th 2018 at 1:30:08 PM

In Super, Piccolo specifically notes Gohan vs Super Buu as an example of Gohan getting cocky and playing with his opponent to make him hurt instead of sealing the deal and just killing him. That's what they're talking about, and it's really easy to draw a connection between that and his performance against Cell in Super Saiyan 2.

Edited by PushoverMediaCritic on Dec 10th 2018 at 2:30:51 AM

unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#33744: Dec 10th 2018 at 1:30:50 PM

He plays around with Super Buu as well.

According to Piccolo in Super.

...And the fight between Gohan and Super Buu itself.

It's there, kinda, but it's harder to tell than with Cell.

Weirdguy149 Former King from Lumiose City Since: Jul, 2014 Relationship Status: I'd jump in front of a train for ya!
Former King
#33745: Dec 10th 2018 at 2:10:29 PM

Nameless Namekian: "I don't know what this 'bous' thing is but it tastes great."

The legend has returned.
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#33746: Dec 10th 2018 at 2:37:48 PM

Had it been Vegeta that defeated him, Frieza probably wouldn't be traumatized by the loss the way he is with Goku

Which is funny, because Freeza didn’t opt to pull a Rage Quit until he realized Vegeta was going to beat him.

Guess he lost that respect.

As for humans being more evil than Saiyans deep down, it wouldn’t surprise me if Toriyama believed that himself considering how hard he’s been trying to whitewash the Saiyans (though you could also call it giving them more depth by not making them unilaterally evil).

I do want to point out that there’s no evidence that Earth destroyed itself in Universe 6. We know it was destroyed, but not how. Also, the lower Mortal Level for 7 is more likely due to Buu’s rampage than just Earth being shitty.

One Strip! One Strip!
WillKeaton from Alberta, Canada Since: Jun, 2010
#33747: Dec 10th 2018 at 2:53:16 PM

Isn't mortal level just the average power level of everyone in a universe?

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#33748: Dec 10th 2018 at 3:05:38 PM

We still have no idea what mortal level actually signifies.

Edited by slimcoder on Dec 10th 2018 at 3:05:53 AM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#33749: Dec 10th 2018 at 3:30:26 PM

Mortal Level honestly seems to have more do with morality than strength.

Which is funny, because Freeza didn’t opt to pull a Rage Quit until he realized Vegeta was going to beat him.

Guess he lost that respect.

I mean, Freeza still doesn't want to lose, to any dirty monkey, even his favorite dirty monkey.

Just saying, losing to Vegeta wouldn't haunt him for the rest of his life is all.

Edited by unnoun on Dec 10th 2018 at 6:32:45 AM

WillKeaton from Alberta, Canada Since: Jun, 2010
#33750: Dec 10th 2018 at 3:49:41 PM

In episode 80 of Super the Grand Minister says that "among all worlds populated by mortals within the 7th Universe the average level is 3.18." So it is an average, we just don't know what it's an average of.


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