???
Oh wait! Are we talking about Vegeta trying to make Omelets in Super that one time?
Edited by HandsomeRob on Nov 10th 2018 at 7:04:17 AM
One Strip! One Strip!The omelettes were neat but I still prefer the Bingo song.
Well, I didn't. I died in time. You just haven't caught up to it yet.
My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.I guess I'll take my worthless pride... and throw it away!
Let the joy of love give you an answer! Check out my book!Yeah, but there was a clear difference made there between his old pride in himself as a killer and member of royalty and his new pride in himself as a father and husband. Healthy pride, instead of toxic pride.
Better than the Super manga, where he gets the new form by regressing all the way back to the Saiyan Saga, bragging about being a mass murderer and how he never relied on anyone.
The former is a natural evolution of his character from his state in the Buu Saga where he was ashamed of himself for being a family man while the latter regresses his character more than Majin Vegeta did.
Edited by PushoverMediaCritic on Nov 10th 2018 at 10:38:54 AM
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Both versions of Super have Vegeta calling himself literally 'number one' despite his Boo arc development being about acknowledging that that wasn't true. He keeps talking about how he's the greatest and how he'll be the one to beat Jiren, and that's the pride he clings onto when he transforms.
Yeah he also has MUH FAMILY but that's just stapled on top of his Android arc persona rather than real development.
And really, you don't need to take pot shots at the manga whenever someone criticizes the anime
Edited by Saiga on Nov 11th 2018 at 4:00:03 AM
The manga versions' development doesn't happen like PMC described (it should be obvious, he never celebrates being a murderer) but yeah, it's definitely flawed.
The part about him giving up on Ultra Instinct because it's not ideal for him is nice, as is the acknowledgement that he hasn't been one to train under a master. It's a nice contrast with Goku, who in the chapter just before had been reminded of all the lessons he learned from his masters.
However, that would have worked better before he trained under Whis, considering that he picked up some very important things from him even if UI didn't pan out. In the chapter following, he is the one to suggest Goku and him work together, which is the pay-off to Whis attempting to train them in co-operation. So he definitely still benefits from Whis' training and consciously uses his teachings. The focus should be more on him forsaking UI.
Like I said, both versions have him go back to calling himself the best, which is the worst part of his Super development.
I kinda get what Toriyama's trying to do, which is to diversify Goku and Vegeta's power-ups and get away from the whole thing of "Goku gets a new form! And then Vegeta gets it too some time later."
Instead, trying to give Goku and Vegeta different development courses they can take to help diversify them as characters and make Vegeta less of the Back-up Goku. Kind of like what Gohan did when he jumped off the Super Saiyan bandwagon and got to have his own shiny awesome form that no one else can have.
Even though they actually totally could if they wanted to but whatevs.
Toriyama doesn't want Dragon Ball to be "Everybody just becomes Super Saiyans" anymore. But. Y'know. It's kinda too little, too late for that?
Edited by TobiasDrake on Nov 11th 2018 at 11:38:40 AM
My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.It is a shame he didn't consider things like this years ago.
Again, taking a little time to plan things out ahead of time might have helped him a bit.
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I don't think it was Toriyama's doing (Blue 2 was originally created by the anime staff to be the counterpart to Blue Kaio-ken, it seems like Toyotarou was inspired by that) but yes, I understand the desire for divergent evolution and it's something I have wanted for them for a while now.
The cycle of 'Goku gets a new form, now we have to establish Vegeta getting the same form' has become really monotonous and since Vegeta's character isn't going to be retired any time soon it's the only way to break that cycle.
I don't think it's too late - it'll never be too late as long as new transformations are being given to both.
It is a problem that their transformations are based on being the same race, but that can be worked around. We just need some better explanation of the forms so there is a reason why they can't use each other's forms.
Ultra Instinct already has that, kind of. We've never been told why it results in a transformation for Goku or anything like that, but we do know that it requires a certain mind state and that Vegeta just isn't right for it.
It's just that we don't have an explanation for Vegeta's form, it just appears to be the next form of blue unlocked by intense emotion. It really seems like something Goku should be able to transform into himself, not that it could be unique to Vegeta.

The best part is when the egg hatches into a chick, and the bird starts making fun of him.