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fasoman1996 Google "big ears" from Argentina (A.K.A. Naziland) Since: Dec, 2014 Relationship Status: Baby don't hurt me!
Google "big ears"
#33301: Oct 22nd 2018 at 6:56:00 PM

Metallic run out of fuel, Eighter became friends with him, 19 didn't quite finish the job, 18 is more or less his sister-in-law now, 16 got his kill goku programme removed and 17 is a park ranger and friends with Goku.

Cell was the only succesful project. Too bad he got desintegrated by angry angsty child

Uni cat
ultimatepheer Since: Mar, 2011
#33302: Oct 22nd 2018 at 8:36:35 PM

I mean, at no point did his creations ever really fail at beating Goku. The ones who tried did pretty damn well for themselves until fate intervened. The ones who didn't well, were already problem children.

Cell did technically kill Goku, albeit with a rather roundabout method of getting there.

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#33303: Oct 22nd 2018 at 10:02:59 PM

Goku has the luck of getting to choose how he died both times.

An option not many characters in DB ever get. Only a few have had the chance to do it once (Chiaotzu, Tien, Piccolo, Vegeta and Old Kai).

The rest of them didn't get that option at all.

Edited by HandsomeRob on Oct 22nd 2018 at 11:03:26 AM

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fasoman1996 Google "big ears" from Argentina (A.K.A. Naziland) Since: Dec, 2014 Relationship Status: Baby don't hurt me!
Google "big ears"
#33304: Oct 22nd 2018 at 10:46:45 PM

Yeah. I bet the ones that got turned into chocolate and eaten were very proud of that death. Or dying to a Saibaman.

Or in the case of Yamcha, both.

Edited by fasoman1996 on Oct 22nd 2018 at 2:47:15 PM

Uni cat
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#33305: Oct 23rd 2018 at 5:26:18 AM

Since 17 and 18 are biomechanical and built for it, I figure when they got absorbed was like when creatures transform during symbiosis or something, and that the two we’re broken down on a cellular level and bonded with Cell. Or maybe they’re basically human shaped “pills,” with parts of them being the medicine Cell needs to ascend. Either way, maybe they either had to remain alive for the process to work or remained alive because Gero’s an asshole.

So when Gohan hit Cell, he didn’t just make him blow chunks. He hit him hard enough to reverse a complicated and supposedly irreversible biological process and force his body to reconstitute 18.

Now all we need to do is get him to punch a tree to see if he can reverse photosynthesis.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Oct 23rd 2018 at 5:28:45 AM

unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#33306: Oct 23rd 2018 at 6:05:12 AM

Couldn't he punch Piccolo instead?

ultimatepheer Since: Mar, 2011
#33307: Oct 23rd 2018 at 6:09:40 AM

Would that make Piccolo puke out sunlight or water...?

fasoman1996 Google "big ears" from Argentina (A.K.A. Naziland) Since: Dec, 2014 Relationship Status: Baby don't hurt me!
Google "big ears"
#33308: Oct 23rd 2018 at 6:31:49 AM

Well, Piccolo was born from a punch too.

18 and Piccolo have a lot in common. They should be besties in the buu saga

Uni cat
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
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#33309: Oct 23rd 2018 at 7:18:44 AM

Since 17 and 18 are biomechanical and built for it, I figure when they got absorbed was like when creatures transform during symbiosis or something, and that the two we’re broken down on a cellular level and bonded with Cell. Or maybe they’re basically human shaped “pills,” with parts of them being the medicine Cell needs to ascend. Either way, maybe they either had to remain alive for the process to work or remained alive because Gero’s an asshole.

So when Gohan hit Cell, he didn’t just make him blow chunks. He hit him hard enough to reverse a complicated and supposedly irreversible biological process and force his body to reconstitute 18.

Now all we need to do is get him to punch a tree to see if he can reverse photosynthesis.

She does come out of the wrong orifice, so there is merit to the idea that Gohan's punch didn't simply make him upchuck.

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Ghilz Perpetually Confused from Yeeted at Relativistic Velocities Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Perpetually Confused
#33310: Oct 23rd 2018 at 7:39:26 AM

It was really nice of Cell's body to reconstitute her clothing when it rebuilt her at a cellular level so he could puke her out.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
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#33311: Oct 23rd 2018 at 9:09:00 AM

Maybe it was floating around inside him after he deconstructed her body. He doesn't drink other people's clothes. He might not have a system for processing them.

Maybe the reason he was such an asshole is because 17's boxers are clogging up his left ventricle.

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Ghilz Perpetually Confused from Yeeted at Relativistic Velocities Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Perpetually Confused
#33312: Oct 23rd 2018 at 9:12:32 AM

Actually, that goes back to our previous point about the mechanics of resurrections. If the cellular thing is true, Shenron re-dressed and rebuilt 17's clothing when he resurrected him. Even if the clothing had been floating inside Cell, it'd be annihilated by the same blast that made sure he left nothing behind.

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#33313: Oct 23rd 2018 at 10:50:40 AM

wild mass guessAfter some deliberation, Shenron decided - largely due to to the only mortals he knows rarely significantly changing their appearances - that one’s clothing was an integral part of their soul and deemed them acceptable to bring back.wild mass guess

GAP Formerly G.G. from Who Knows? Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: In love with love
Formerly G.G.
#33314: Oct 24th 2018 at 3:18:01 PM

Crosspost:

I found something on Anonymous about Gohan and his so called 'cowardice' but here is one thing that stands out to me:

>hypocrisy Literally what hypocrisy? Gohan never liked fighting and being thrown into by Goku, who forfeited his fight and HEALED Cell wasn't going to change that. >b-b-but if you CAN do something you have an OBLIGATION to And who says Gohan could have? Until he went SS 2 (which nobody knew was sa thing until it happened), he really wasn't any more capable than Goku was, meaning at absolute best he could have fought evenly with Cell.

Gohan was far from being a coward, TFS Gohan too. They trained with Piccolo, they fought the saiyans, they went to Namek, and they attacked Frieza despite the powergap. I don't know what the fuck TFS was smoking when they tried to paint Gohan as a coward and a pacifist. It was retarded and shows how little they understand the character.

Ehhh.

The problem was *always* that he was a child. An innocent doesn't-like-fighting child, and both of his father figures forced him (for a greater good that was still monumentally unfair for him to step up to face) into fighting and trying to unlock his power.

He's not a coward because he tries to fight even though he's afraid. This is practically objective. But because of his inexperience (and again, he's a child) he falters— chokes a couple times during the Saiyan Arc, tries to do all he can during the Freeza saga, and at the end of the Cell Saga his father stops fighting the genocidal killer bio borg and shoves him into it's path telling Gohan all the while he's got this.

It hurt him almost as much as Cell working him over, and it takes everyone he knows having the shit beaten out of them and a kindly robot giving him a man-to-man talk before he finally just lost it.

Yes it does so. Goku can't count at the start of Dragon Ball, but he was eventually revealed to be about 12, roughly the same age as SS 2 Gohan. He lived in the fucking woods and punched animals he intended to eat to death until he met Bulma. The original Dragon Ball hunt takes place over a summer, and a year later he's training for the Tenkaiichi Budokai. So he's 13 by the time the Red Ribbon Arc ends and Goku trains for about 3 years before the Demon King Piccolo saga, when he was 16. Add three more years till the next tourney and he's 19 right before he gets married and DBZ starts 5 years later.

Goku had ALOT more time and conditions to ease into his adventurous fight-everybody lifestyle and frankly he enjoyed it. Most of his kill count (assuming he didn't just pummel someone into unconsciousness) were against dudes/monsters who were going to kill/eat him or his friends, it was all self defense. The dinosaur that almost ate Bulma, the Bear guy, a whole bunch of Red Ribbon murderers—he didn't even really kill Tao Pie Pie and he never went in for lethal tactics against Pilaf no matter how many times the guy showed up. Krillin's death is the only time he went out for revenge during DB.

Gohan on the other hand got his start after his dad gets murdered, his *other* dad leaves him to survive alone in Dinosaur land and then punches him for 6 months and on and on and on...

I kind of wonder where the whole thing about Gohan being a coward and a brat came from? Gohan is actually a lot braver than most people give him credit for and if Dragon ball wasn't the kind of series that was (as in grimdark), Gohan would have PTSD from the amount stuff he had experienced.

"Mai waifu."
fasoman1996 Google "big ears" from Argentina (A.K.A. Naziland) Since: Dec, 2014 Relationship Status: Baby don't hurt me!
Google "big ears"
#33315: Oct 24th 2018 at 3:45:42 PM

What i took from the scene wasn't that Gohan was a coward but that he was afraid of letting go and becoming a monster. That was interpreted by both Cell and 16 as cowardice, the former because he felt that Gohan was afraid of fighting and covered it under the guise of a pacifist. Meanwhile, 16 believed was a coward because he was unwilling to protect the planet he loved and that would mean letting Cell destroy it, so in a huge move of Brutal Honesty he tells Gohan that he is going to let everyone die, he was a pussy (in his eyes) and that the only satisfaction of not fighting in that situation would be that his stuck to his morals.

So that's the final straw, Gohan doesn't give a shit anymore and unleashes all his rage. The rage that he was afraid that would overcome him and turn him into a sadistic beast does exactly that, turn him into Blood Knight that only wants to kick the shit out of cell.

Edited by fasoman1996 on Oct 24th 2018 at 7:46:03 AM

Uni cat
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
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#33316: Nov 1st 2018 at 7:42:26 AM

I just found a breakdown of Piccolo's character that MasakoX did last year and... yeah, I can't really deny the Piccolo favoritism in the show anymore.

Among the statements I take issue with are the claims that

  • Piccolo Jr. never cared about world domination. He was motivated only by a revenge-boner for Goku.
  • Goku sparing Piccolo at the 23rd Tenkaichi Budokai is what changed him as a person and caused his Heel–Face Turn.
  • Piccolo was "pretty successful as a dad" to Gohan during his year of training the kid prior to the Saiyans' arrival.
  • Piccolo is "really skilled at the ways of martial arts" while "retaining a level of realism and pragmatism which is rarely seen in Dragon Ball."

...yeah. Okay. There is some blatant favoritism going on here.

Incidentally, he also adds another piece of kindling to the "Bad Dad Goku" fire with a 2004 interview quote from Toriyama.

"Goku isn't interested in child-rearing, probably. He's completely unqualified to be a father. He doesn't even have a job. Goku wants nothing other than to get stronger, and it feels like he doesn't have any other instincts. So he shows absolutely no interest in things he's not interested in. I'd bet he wouldn't have had any interest in marriage, either."

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VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#33317: Nov 1st 2018 at 7:51:20 AM

It's an open secret that TFS has certain biases for some characters. Most people just don't mind because the biases didn't effect their enjoyment of the Abridged Series.

lara16 Since: Mar, 2018
#33318: Nov 1st 2018 at 7:52:24 AM

Piccolo was "pretty successful as a dad" to Gohan during his year of training the kid prior to the Saiyans' arrival.

... What, when he threw him against a rock and almost fed him to a dinosaur? I guess their relationship ended up turning out fine, but I wouldn't recommend it.

"Goku is not a good dad" and "Piccolo is his real dad" aren't mutually inclusive statements.

Edited by lara16 on Nov 1st 2018 at 7:53:44 AM

Larkmarn Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Hello, I love you
#33319: Nov 1st 2018 at 8:00:29 AM

See, here's the thing with TFS' pro-Piccolo bias: it results in Abridged Piccolo. Who is my favorite character. Basically, their bias enhances the character (though it can be argued it detracts from the others, but goddammit any detraction is worth it for giving me "Gohan! Do you need some juice? How did the interview go?!?" when they're facing Broly).

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HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#33320: Nov 1st 2018 at 8:36:09 AM

"Goku isn't interested in child-rearing, probably. He's completely unqualified to be a father. He doesn't even have a job. Goku wants nothing other than to get stronger, and it feels like he doesn't have any other instincts. So he shows absolutely no interest in things he's not interested in. I'd bet he wouldn't have had any interest in marriage, either."

Then why did you make him a father in the first place? What did it add to Goku’s character?

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ultimatepheer Since: Mar, 2011
#33321: Nov 1st 2018 at 8:39:13 AM

I think his original plan was to make Gohan the main character. But then he kept bringing Goku back and things spiraled wildly out of control.

unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#33322: Nov 1st 2018 at 8:56:23 AM

I feel like there's definitely a disconnect between the Son Goku that Akira Toriyama thinks he wrote and the Son Goku he actually wrote.

Like. The Goku in the manga has all those elements, to be fair. There is, actually, a grain of truth to the selfish, bad dad, bad husband Goku. I'm not saying he isn't those things at all or slightly.

But the idea that that's all he is and that's there is to it is a horribly reductive and selective reading.

Like, even in Resurrection F, Freeza of all people says of Gohan that "he has a soft heart, just like his father."

Gohan, fundamentally, did not get his mindness or gentleness or softness from Chi-Chi.

I'm surprised there isn't more commentary on TFS's "bad mom/wife Chi-Chi" with lines like "I'm a teacher first and a mother second. Also a wife." And Gohan's "Oh thank God" when he dreams of Cell killing her.

Even Super points out that. Goku's mercy to Vegeta might have been more selfish in motive than the dub.

But his reason for giving Frieza some energy and sparing him is fundamentally unselfish in every version.

It's not necessarily nice either, it's more like a Cruel Mercy. What with the being cut in half. But still. It's not selfish, for Goku's benefit per se.

"Survive, and maybe you'll learn the value of life."

lara16 Since: Mar, 2018
#33323: Nov 1st 2018 at 9:07:22 AM

[up] Well, DBZ Chi-Chi isn't a real character, she's a naggy woman stereotype. The Abridged version just exaggerated it... and not even by that much. Not much to point out there, except that there's a lack of originality. Not much else you could do with Chi-Chi though, I guess.

unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#33324: Nov 1st 2018 at 9:28:05 AM

I mean.

Funnily enough, Super gave me a massive new appreciation for Chi-Chi in the moment where Goku does what he wants anyway and is gone she calms down and it turns out she was just pretending and she was actually okay with it the entire time.

That Super also has the thing about Saiyans being into "strong women" makes it seem like all of Chi-Chi's nagging is just an act, and it's the only thing that keeps their relationship stable because it gets Goku's Saiyan blood flowing.

It's weird and probably kinda kinky, but I also love it?

lara16 Since: Mar, 2018
#33325: Nov 1st 2018 at 9:40:19 AM

I mean, maybe that would be interesting if the relationship got explored or Chi-Chi had an actual personality, but as it is that just trades "why is she even still with him when she can't stand his crappy behavior 99% of the time" for "actually this relationship is a total sham, so why is Chi-Chi even with him at all?".

Maybe at this point she just stays with him because he's one of the most powerful people in the universe. Like, crazy space people or demons are always gonna try to kill everyone anyway, so she might as well be one of the people guaranteed to survive. Being together with some dumbass she was enarmored with decades ago and isn't anymore is a small sacrifice. tongue


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