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Ghilz Perpetually Confused from Yeeted at Relativistic Velocities Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Perpetually Confused
#33201: Oct 19th 2018 at 11:35:45 PM

No you're the one that's missing the point. That they move and affect the plot doesn't stop making them supporting characters. They become supporting characters the moment Cell shows up (At the latest, 18 becomes it the moment 17 is eaten, but lets be real both of them moved there the moment Cell appeared as the plot immediately became about Cell). Sure, she still affects the plot. Sure, she's not an ally of the main characters. But none of that matters, because at that point the Story isn't about HER. That's literally the only factor that matters in what makes a character a main character, a supporting character, or a minor character. It's about Cell, Goku, Vegeta, Trunks and Gohan. She's firmly in supporting character territory. Her alignment doesn't matter.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
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#33202: Oct 20th 2018 at 12:20:40 AM

That is like saying that Vegeta becomes supporting cast as soon as Frieza shows up on Namek, since he can't be The Good Guy (Krillin and Gohan) and he can't be The Bad Guy (Frieza). There can be more than two sides to a story.

17 and 18 don't abandon their plot thread when Cell's Time Machine is discovered. They continue pushing it, forcing the protagonists to defend against them and hunt for Cell at the same time. They do not support the protagonists. They do not support Cell. They do not f*ck off and become neutral figures in the conflict. They are their own side, independent of Cell and moving the plot alongside him.

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PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#33203: Oct 20th 2018 at 12:30:02 AM

There is a tiny window of time between 17's fight with Piccolo and 18 being absorbed in which 17 and 18 are no longer villains trying to kill the protagonists.

This isn't entirely accurate. It's not super long, but it's not really "tiny" either. That's a good 4 episodes there. That's the same number of episodes that make up the Cell Games, counting all parts of Episode 60 as 1. That's also the same number of episodes making up the first half of the Freeza fight (the half without Goku and with all of Freeza's transformations).

unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#33204: Oct 20th 2018 at 4:11:15 PM

So, when all the normal humans Cell drank came back, did they come back in their clothes? The clothes specifically weren't absorbed with them and I could swear I saw some of the clothes get blown away by the wind.

Ghilz Perpetually Confused from Yeeted at Relativistic Velocities Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Perpetually Confused
#33205: Oct 20th 2018 at 4:32:06 PM

Does it matter? They came back during the nationwide celebratory orgy?

sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#33206: Oct 20th 2018 at 8:16:48 PM

[up] Or perhaps they approached Baba Urenai for their one day pass back to the land of the living for the nationwide celebratory orgy.

fasoman1996 Google "big ears" from Argentina (A.K.A. Naziland) Since: Dec, 2014 Relationship Status: Baby don't hurt me!
Google "big ears"
#33207: Oct 20th 2018 at 8:18:19 PM

At least Krillin and 18 had the decency to get a room.

Well, "room". Who knows what happened to Roshi, Turtle and Oolong

Uni cat
sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#33208: Oct 20th 2018 at 9:13:34 PM

18: Get out.
Roshi: Um, this house belongs to-
18: Out. Also, if I find a hidden camera, microphone, or see an unusually placed periscope off in the distance, I will become your eternal nightmare until you die of age.
Roshi: I'm technically immortal...
18: So am I.
Roshi: Turtle! Pig! Hop on M'Dick! We're giving these two some "quality time"!

Edited by sgamer82 on Oct 20th 2018 at 10:13:54 AM

Ghilz Perpetually Confused from Yeeted at Relativistic Velocities Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Perpetually Confused
#33209: Oct 20th 2018 at 11:48:08 PM

[up] Or perhaps they approached Baba Urenai for their one day pass back to the land of the living for the nationwide celebratory orgy.

Well if they did come back in their clothes when they were wished back to life, it'd be awkward. Being clothed in the nation-wide orgy seems like an etiquette faux-pas.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
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#33210: Oct 21st 2018 at 9:26:14 AM

I can honestly say I've never thought about this, but Unnoun is right. The wish shouldn't give them back their clothes. When you're resurrected, you're put back to life from your mortal remains. You literally wake up in your corpse. Whatever damage was dealt to your body to kill you is fixed, while everything else is the same.

So. Like. If you had an arm cut off and then someone shot you in the face, you'd wake up with the bullethole repaired but still missing the arm. It basically rewinds your body to where it was when that killing blow was dealt. Unless your corpse is repaired in some fashion, as is standard when you're allowed to take it with you and wear it in the afterlife.

But. Like. Clothing isn't a body part, y'know? Shenron is under no obligation to preserve anybody's modesty when reconstructing their bodies from....

...from....

...

Okay. So.

People don't come back to life where they died. They come back where their remains are. When you move their corpse - say, by putting it in a capsule to preserve it - they wake up in the capsule.

These people were liquified and eaten by Cell. So. Anything resembling "remains" would have been incorporated into him. It's how he powers the beautiful temple that is his body.

So. Like. There is a chance. Not a certainty but a chance. That everyone came back to life in a giant naked dogpile at the Cell Games Arena.

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ultimatepheer Since: Mar, 2011
#33211: Oct 21st 2018 at 9:34:26 AM

I'm just gonna say that Shenron isn't a Jackass Genie. He probably put people back in their clothes because he knows people would probably want to come back to life wearing their clothes.

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#33212: Oct 21st 2018 at 9:34:37 AM

[up][up]

I think there might be a reason none of us considered that.

We all should have trusted our instincts and continued to not think about it.

...though now that the thought is there, I do chuckle at the idea that some people got head start on the glad to be alive orgy.

Edit: [up] Oh right. I keep forgetting about that. I think I've either grown horrifically cynical, or I've spent too much time here.

Or both. Tv Tropes Will Ruin Your Life after all, but I also got some frustrations that might leak through when I'm here, both in my anime/manga viewing and in life.

Edited by HandsomeRob on Oct 21st 2018 at 10:39:06 AM

One Strip! One Strip!
fasoman1996 Google "big ears" from Argentina (A.K.A. Naziland) Since: Dec, 2014 Relationship Status: Baby don't hurt me!
Google "big ears"
#33213: Oct 21st 2018 at 9:36:18 AM

So how do you explain Android 17?

He died off-planet but woke up on earth, presumably near the cell games arena. Why? He didn't die there

Uni cat
randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#33214: Oct 21st 2018 at 9:38:41 AM

Freeza was revived as is from when Trunks killed him...before the blast.

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TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
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#33215: Oct 21st 2018 at 9:47:43 AM

Did he die off-planet? Do we know that?

Goku and Kaio-sama certainly died when Cell self-destructed, but Cell didn't. We know that 17 and 18 were somehow alive inside of Cell when he vomited up 18, but we also know that she came out of a different orifice than she went in. And that his body was somehow sustaining her, seeing as she didn't suffocate or starve or anything.

Really, who's to say that Android 17 didn't regenerate with the rest of Perfecter Cell? Having him wake up at the Cell Games arena certainly does seem to indicate that. His body was reconstructed where Cell died for good.

Also, the Magic Dragons may not be Jackass Genies, but there are rules. If you wish to bring a person back to life, that person is brought back to life. The dragon doesn't owe you anything extra.

Frieza came back to life in diced cubes because the dicing wasn't what killed him. Krillin's remains had to be moved to the afterlife on a separate wish to keep him from being revived in the vacuum of space where Namek used to—

...

Heh. Hehehe. I just realized something.

Krillin didn't get to keep his body in the afterlife. Man, even Yamcha got to wear his corpse. Krillin gets no respect.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Oct 21st 2018 at 10:49:03 AM

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randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#33216: Oct 21st 2018 at 9:49:46 AM

Kriller got completely blowed up though, Yamucha was just exploded on...

And didn't have any greater being to make him a body for the after...

Edited by randomness4 on Oct 21st 2018 at 9:50:22 AM

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#33217: Oct 21st 2018 at 10:01:22 AM

They restored Chiaotzu's body in the After life, and he blew himself up.

Maybe Krillin never got a chance to get his body restored because there was less time between his death and his revival? I mean, it was mostly a few weeks before Goku started journeying to Namek when he first found out the others made their way to King Kai, and it was just a few hours (maybe a day or two) after Krillin died.

Plus, they'd made it clear they intended to use the Namek balls to revive him and Goku right away, so there may not have been a reason to give him a body, whereas the Fodder force and Piccolo didn't know how long they'd be dead, and just needed something to do (perhaps expecting that they'd need to be wished to Namek as Piccolo ultimately was).

One Strip! One Strip!
randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#33218: Oct 21st 2018 at 10:14:08 AM

I did say that no great god was around to gave him a body for the after he died...

He actually did get one when his body was moved to Earth's check in station...which is a thing apparently.

Edited by randomness4 on Oct 21st 2018 at 10:15:02 AM

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#33219: Oct 21st 2018 at 10:15:08 AM

I'm just gonna say that Shenron isn't a Jackass Genie. He probably put people back in their clothes because he knows people would probably want to come back to life wearing their clothes.

Shenron: All right, got all these maggots dressed and back to life. Let's check on my handiwork.
Random People: We're alive? We're alive! Hey what's that? An orgy? Woo-hoo! *rips off all their clothes*
Shenron: I just can't win with you people, can I?

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#33220: Oct 21st 2018 at 10:17:01 AM

It took three months for the Namekian Dragon Balls to recuperate after being used on Namek. Goku made the trip back from Kaio-sama's in one day with a battle power of 8,000, so Krillin's 75,000 could have put him there in, like, the span of time it takes to have afternoon tea.

If he could find someone to rebuild his body, that is. I agree that this is probably the sticking point. IIRC, wasn't it God that repaired the Earthlings' bodies, same as he'd done for Goku? Y'know, since he was also freshly dead and was standing there at the Check-In Station with everyone else.

Krillin didn't have a divine patron to re-plode him, so he remained thoroughly exploded.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Oct 21st 2018 at 11:17:54 AM

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Ghilz Perpetually Confused from Yeeted at Relativistic Velocities Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Perpetually Confused
#33221: Oct 21st 2018 at 10:18:49 AM

So. Like. If you had an arm cut off and then someone shot you in the face, you'd wake up with the bullethole repaired but still missing the arm. It basically rewinds your body to where it was when that killing blow was dealt. Unless your corpse is repaired in some fashion, as is standard when you're allowed to take it with you and wear it in the afterlife.

Except that we know for a fact that's not true. On Namek Vegeta loses ALL wounds when he resurrects. Not just the hole in his chest. Heck, he was so fucked up at the time of death he couldn't even move. He comes back all the bruises are gone, he's no longer spitting blood, and he's fit enough to fly and even to fight.

In fact if you take Super into account, it seems that Shenron has leeway with whatever he does. He resurrects Freeza in chunks for example, rather than re-assemble him.

Edited by Ghilz on Oct 21st 2018 at 1:21:04 PM

Kayeka (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#33222: Oct 21st 2018 at 10:27:03 AM

He also gave some dry ice to go with the bucket of ice cream as a freebie, which I thought was nice.

fasoman1996 Google "big ears" from Argentina (A.K.A. Naziland) Since: Dec, 2014 Relationship Status: Baby don't hurt me!
Google "big ears"
#33223: Oct 21st 2018 at 10:27:22 AM

Usually many attribute Cell going Kamikaze to 17's bomb. That's why he could blow himself up like that. And if 17's death happened when Cell got desintegrated then he wouldn't come back because technically Gohan killed him.

While this is kind of a stretch, i always assumed that when Goku was going bomb dispossal again in King Kai's planet as a Call-Back to cell, everyone who got exploded that day was present, even 17.

Uni cat
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
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#33224: Oct 21st 2018 at 10:27:36 AM

Reviving Freiza in chunks is only healing the damage that killed him. Frieza has the ability to be dismembered and yet survive for prolonged periods of time. Prior to his arrival on Earth, he had already managed to withstand Namek's explosion as half of a torso with one arm and a head connected to it, then live on in the vacuum of space for however long it took to retrieve him.

Frieza dies hard, is what I'm saying. It's probably where Cell gets his own ability to have like half of his skull blown off and be fine.

What killed Frieza was when Trunks followed up the dicing by vaporizing the cubes. So when Frieza was revived, his diced cubes were un-vaporized.

[up] If 17's bomb was powerful enough to destroy the entire planet, one would think 16's would be too. Yet 16 seemed confident that he could detonate his bomb and take out Cell without exterminating the Earth in the process.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Oct 21st 2018 at 11:29:00 AM

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fasoman1996 Google "big ears" from Argentina (A.K.A. Naziland) Since: Dec, 2014 Relationship Status: Baby don't hurt me!
Google "big ears"
#33225: Oct 21st 2018 at 10:33:37 AM

Maybe him getting all inflated like that increased the radius of the bomb and it's power.

What i'm saying is that if 17 only died after Cell got vaporized then the Dragon Balls wouldn't have revived him because Cell didn't kill him, Gohan did.

Unless his "death" happened the moment he got absorbed

Edited by fasoman1996 on Oct 21st 2018 at 2:34:12 PM

Uni cat

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