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thok That's Dr. Title, thank you! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Non-Canon
That's Dr. Title, thank you!
#33151: Oct 14th 2018 at 7:54:50 AM

It can't be too high of a power level, given that Raditz and early DBZ Yamcha can fly.

unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#33152: Oct 14th 2018 at 7:56:18 AM

So could Tien, Chiaotzu, Shen (er, the Crane Master, not Kami) and Puar.

Thebrawlbro Since: Aug, 2013
#33153: Oct 14th 2018 at 8:00:29 AM

Flying is less of a, need a certain power level to do it, and more you just need to know how. Videl could do it and she could barely do basic Ki attacks.

Edited by Thebrawlbro on Oct 14th 2018 at 11:06:18 AM

Arha Since: Jan, 2010
#33154: Oct 14th 2018 at 8:03:31 AM

You do need a certain amount of energy. When it was first introduced it could only be used for short bursts.

fasoman1996 Google "big ears" from Argentina (A.K.A. Naziland) Since: Dec, 2014 Relationship Status: Baby don't hurt me!
Google "big ears"
#33155: Oct 14th 2018 at 8:05:14 AM

A better question is, how did Gero figure out how to give his creations Ki based flight?

Uni cat
unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#33156: Oct 14th 2018 at 8:08:38 AM

I'm not sure it is ki-based. Well, except for Cell.

Also. Speaking of Puar, why did the transformation school never come back? I feel like there has to be a way to incorporate it in Martial Arts.

Edited by unnoun on Oct 14th 2018 at 11:10:12 AM

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#33157: Oct 14th 2018 at 8:52:14 AM

[up][up][up]Actually, no, when it was first introduced Tenshinhan and Chiaotzu were using it casually to watch matches over a high wall without having to hold onto the wall. Chiaotzu also used it constantly throughout his fight with Krillin.

I headcanon that Puar's flight isn't the same kind of thing as everyone else's flight. I think Puar flies with magic, not ki.

Edited by PushoverMediaCritic on Oct 14th 2018 at 8:52:39 AM

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#33158: Oct 14th 2018 at 9:59:57 AM

[up][up]

We can only guess why the transformation school never became a thing. My assumption is because it was done entirely for a joke and once Toriyama was done with Oolong and Puar he just never considered it important enough to use again.

So, doesn't Mr. Satan saying in Episode 59 that nobody can move faster than the eye can see not make sense given that, in the Buu Saga, (I think it might even be in the manga) he moves faster than the eye can see to take out the sniper that shoots Bee?

As I understand it, him doing that was purely in the anime. In the manga, I think he just got shot without getting a chance to try anything.

And while I like that moment in the anime, the manga makes more sense because Satan isn't supposed to know dick about Ki, so why would he be able to Flash Step.

One Strip! One Strip!
unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#33159: Oct 14th 2018 at 10:04:53 AM

I could have sworn the gunmen showed up twice. The first time they shot Bee, the second time they shot Satan.

I also thought shooting Bee the first time was important, because Buu healed Bee, and Satan made Buu promise not to kill anyone.

Granted, Toei making or changing a big plot important thing with filler is possible.

...Im pretty sure Bee existing is in the manga?

Also, did Krillin know about ki in that first tournament in the manga? I thought he just wore a turtle shell and delivered milk.

Krillin and Jackie Chun are able to have a whole comedy skit while moving faster than the eye can see.

Edited by unnoun on Oct 14th 2018 at 1:11:02 PM

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#33160: Oct 14th 2018 at 10:14:23 AM

Oh. You're talking about the first assassination attempt where Satan goes up the cliff and kicks their asses.

I thought you were talking about the moment where the dude sneaks into Buu's house and shoots Satan.

We don't actually see how Satan gets up the cliff so fast, so it's not clear if he did a flash step or just hauled ass up there while the two gunman were distracted.

Let me check a clip. BRB.

Edit: Right, so I couldn't find an exact clip of Satan attacking those dudes. The best I could find is a moment just after they shoot Bee the puppy but before Satan gets them where they are reacting to Buu's lack of damage after they shoot him with Rocket Launchers (which the clip doesn't have but I remember it now).

So I'm guessing that while they were focused on Buu not being damaged, Satan just ran up to beat them up and they missed it. No need for super speed.

Edited by HandsomeRob on Oct 14th 2018 at 11:22:26 AM

One Strip! One Strip!
Moth13 Since: Sep, 2010
#33161: Oct 14th 2018 at 10:19:52 AM

In the manga the gunman shoots Mr. Satan in the back after Buu heals Bee. In the anime Buu and Satan retire back to Buu's house, and there's a nice moment where Satan rips up the staged photo he took of him "defeating" Buu, but then the gunman barges in and shoots Satan, who tries flash stepping to take him out but gets shot anyway.

randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#33162: Oct 14th 2018 at 10:26:51 AM

That's funny.

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TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#33163: Oct 14th 2018 at 10:56:50 AM

As noted, flight isn't so much a level of ki as it is a technique. A very rudimentary technique by cosmic standards; the Planet Trade Organization, Namekians, Saiyans, and the like all seem to teach it, which makes sense given that they have a better understanding of ki. Earth is, after all, a backwater planet full of weaklings, so even basic ki manipulation is a rare and special skill here.

On Earth, the technique is called bukujutsu (Dancing Sky Art) and it's a signature technique for the Crane School. Initially only Tenshinhan and Chiaotzu could perform bukujutsu - bizarrely, not even Taopaipai knew the technique, despite being their aspirational role model.

Goku learned bukujutsu either from watching Tenshinhan doing it and then copying the move - as he does - or during his three years training under God in preparation for the 23rd Tenkaichi Budokai. We're never really told when he learned it, but he reveals that he's learned it when he uses it to fight Piccolo in the tournament.

Krillin and Yamcha go on to learn bukujutsu during their training under God in preparation for the Saiyans' arrival. Again, either from Tenshinhan or from God himself; either is plausible and neither is firmly stated. Other humans such as Yajirobe or Kame-sennin never learn bukujutsu and remain flightless, despite being reasonably powerful by Earthling standards.

And, of course, Gohan learns bukujutsu from Piccolo - who never needed to learn it because he already knew it from his time as Piccolo Daimao - and goes on to train Videl in the art.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Oct 14th 2018 at 11:57:39 AM

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thok That's Dr. Title, thank you! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Non-Canon
That's Dr. Title, thank you!
#33164: Oct 14th 2018 at 11:02:41 AM

[up] Taopaipai doesn't need to fly, not when there are conveniently placed pillars located everywhere.

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#33165: Oct 14th 2018 at 11:06:51 AM

wild mass guessTao Pai Pai is actually levitating the pillars or trees that he rides on via Telekinesis, hence why they always go exactly as far as he needs to go every time.wild mass guess

One Strip! One Strip!
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#33166: Oct 14th 2018 at 11:14:08 AM

Actually, Krillin demonstrated basic knowledge of flight when he used it to avoid getting rung out while fighting Piccolo. It was very basic, however, he was just barely able to hover back to the ring.

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#33167: Oct 14th 2018 at 12:11:42 PM

It can't be too high of a power level, given that Raditz and early DBZ Yamcha can fly.

I don't know if it's a joke or not, but it doesn't really make much sense either way. It's not like either Raditz or Yamcha are weak by universal standards.

I've never actually understood the "look how weak Raditz is!" jokes.

Edited by LSBK on Oct 14th 2018 at 2:12:40 PM

unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#33168: Oct 14th 2018 at 12:24:29 PM

I feel like too many people start with Raditz.

Honestly, the video games dont help. With how many of those go from Raditz to Cell.

All video games from now on should start at the Bulma's Car Saga.

...Or, even better, start with fucking Jaco.

...God, I need my fucking Jaco OVA.

Edited by unnoun on Oct 14th 2018 at 3:29:23 PM

Kamiccolo Since: May, 2018
#33169: Oct 14th 2018 at 12:44:43 PM

...How much ki do you need to fly, anyway? Like, what power level?

Goku could do a kamehameha a day and destroy a car with a power level of only 10.

Videl could fly and she's a complete weakling who could die to pistol bullets. Dende could fly and he's heavily implied to be even weaker than Mr. Satan. Puar could fly and he's a harmless cat.
Vegeta spamming ki blasts on Zarbon weakened Zarbon enough for Vegeta to kill him, meaning each blast took less energy from Vegeta than it took Zarbon to survive it.
Daizenshuu 7 specifies that, to completely cancel out your opponent's attacks, you have to be outputting twice their ki at the area of contact. The implication being that if you're outputting below twice their ki, your passive defenses are progressively less effective and you take progressively more damage (outputting 180% of their ki might be a Cell-style "you call that a punch? My head barely moved!" No-Sell; outputting 100% of their ki would be more like a regular guy getting punched in the face by another regular guy; and so on).

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#33170: Oct 14th 2018 at 12:48:22 PM

Puar is at least powerful enough to kill Yamcha, for what it's worth.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#33171: Oct 14th 2018 at 1:01:03 PM

Yeah, she need only became a noose.

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#33172: Oct 14th 2018 at 2:02:12 PM

It's already been mentioned how flight has been used by Ten and Chaozu casually in their introduction (Ten is unable to keep it up once Goku exhausts him though). Goku and Kuririn learn it by the 23rd Budokai but their versions of the technique are rudimentary. Even five years later, Goku still prefers to use his cloud to fly after Raditz, and to conserve stamina when flying to confront Vegeta and Nappa.

Goku is obviously much stronger than Ten and Chaozu so it's not just how much ki you have.

When Goku and Piccolo go to confront Raditz, Piccolo mentions that his own flying technique is superior to Goku's (no shit). He then went on to train Gohan, who was flying easily within 6 months, and Gohan trained Videl and Goten who learned it in 10 days. That's probably why they had an easier time compared to Kuririn and Goku who were probably self-taught.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#33173: Oct 14th 2018 at 2:29:06 PM

Though it does seem to be partially based in the amount of ki you have, much like most other ki-based techniques. After fighting Goku, Tenshinhan was so tired he couldn't fly. A similar thing happened to Krillin after Goku threw the Spirit Bomb against Freeza, where his flight was wobbly and slow and he noted that it was because he was exhausted.

This is probably no different than Goku and Roshi tiring themselves out too much to fire Kamehamehas at the end of their fight, though.

Edited by PushoverMediaCritic on Oct 14th 2018 at 2:30:56 AM

fasoman1996 Google "big ears" from Argentina (A.K.A. Naziland) Since: Dec, 2014 Relationship Status: Baby don't hurt me!
Google "big ears"
#33174: Oct 14th 2018 at 2:48:00 PM

Anyone else wondering how they will handle the Spopovich fight?

Will they make it funny? Can they make it funny?

Uni cat
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#33175: Oct 14th 2018 at 2:54:36 PM

I've said before how I think they'll handle it, but I might as well. I think they'll write Spopovich with more depth and his character will be more outwardly driven by his hatred for Mr. Satan. His fight with Videl will be interspersed with black comedy in the form of Spopovich making fun of her for being Mr. Satan's daughter and insulting her. Videl standing up to him will be played straight.

Kind of similar to how they portrayed the last bit of the Recoome fight, particularly the bit with Gohan.


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