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HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#33101: Oct 10th 2018 at 7:02:17 AM

As an example, during the Tournament of Power, Universe 11's fighters are noted as being not exceptionally powerful - Jiren excepted - but still make it through most of the tournament without losing a single fighter. They're able to do this because of their incredible teamwork and effective cohesion as a group.

...the thing is, even though you've prevented examples that show the opposite, I feel like if it had been Toriyama doing that, he'd have just had them get crushed to show how strong the other guy is. I've spent so long thinking that way that it's hard to get away from.

[up][up] They don't have to eat the candy. They just pick it up and throw it out like [up] said.

Edited by HandsomeRob on Oct 10th 2018 at 8:05:09 AM

One Strip! One Strip!
sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#33102: Oct 10th 2018 at 7:03:31 AM

Is that any different from any other stun move used to do the same thing?

fasoman1996 Google "big ears" from Argentina (A.K.A. Naziland) Since: Dec, 2014 Relationship Status: Baby don't hurt me!
Google "big ears"
#33103: Oct 10th 2018 at 7:05:53 AM

Candy Beam can be deflected if you are strong enough. At least we know that Dabura, a being powerful as Cell, was completely shut down by that attack.

Around the time of Super Buu appearing, the strongest non-fused fighter that was alive was...Piccolo.

Uni cat
Moth13 Since: Sep, 2010
#33104: Oct 10th 2018 at 7:48:06 AM

While it could be that Vegetto is just special, that isn't really made clear and it looks like he just retains his strength due to how powerful he is (either in relation to Boo or not).

And Boo arc Super Vegetto's level has long since been surpassed.

Yeah but how powerful Buu is after training and getting his Thin Form is up in the air.

unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#33105: Oct 10th 2018 at 7:56:53 AM

I want to think part of it was Vegetto being half-dead.

fasoman1996 Google "big ears" from Argentina (A.K.A. Naziland) Since: Dec, 2014 Relationship Status: Baby don't hurt me!
Google "big ears"
#33106: Oct 11th 2018 at 4:44:09 PM

You know, i think the Champion of Christmas joke from the Lord Slug movie would be a hilarious reason for Goku using Ultra Instinct.

Too bad they will never abridge Super

Uni cat
Weirdguy149 Former King from Lumiose City Since: Jul, 2014 Relationship Status: I'd jump in front of a train for ya!
Former King
#33107: Oct 11th 2018 at 4:51:05 PM

Nah, Ultra Instinct's too cool for a rehash of the Lord of Christmas joke.

The legend has returned.
Kamiccolo Since: May, 2018
#33108: Oct 12th 2018 at 9:27:39 AM

The real reason Buu was unbalanced and therefore excluded, as Kaioshin points out in the manga, are his healing powers. They wreck the entire premise of the TOP. Not like they did much with the stamina plot point to begin with though.

The second reason is that the first thing he would have done would be this attack which would have instantly eliminated 90% of the competitors without actually costing Buu any stamina.

Edited by Kamiccolo on Oct 12th 2018 at 9:27:56 AM

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
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#33109: Oct 12th 2018 at 9:31:06 AM

The healing powers don't wreck the premise, actually. Since killing an opponent is already forbidden, the fact that Buu is nearly impossible to kill is irrelevant.

This is a tournament of Ringouts.

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Kamiccolo Since: May, 2018
#33110: Oct 12th 2018 at 9:38:31 AM

I'm not talking about his regeneration, I'm talking about his Healing Hands (or Healing Ray) that can fix anything from decapitation to large holes in the body to blindness. He can do that. He got it from absorbing those Kaioshins.

Healing someone also restores all their energy, even for someone stronger than the healer (see Kibito healing Gohan or Trunks healing Goku in the manga). It would be impossible for any of his teammates to tire themselves out or take lasting damage as long as he's there. And eliminating him in the first place would be difficult enough due to his regeneration and weird body. He'd basically be a heroic (and stronger) future Zamasu in role. His teammates would be at 100% continously.

Remember when MUI Goku and Limit Break Jiren were going at each other full force, and Goku started to look like he was winning, only for him to gas out before Jiren and lose? Not an issue with Buu there. He could just zap Goku's body back to being good as new and let him take care of the still-damaged and still-drained Jiren easily.

Edited by Kamiccolo on Oct 12th 2018 at 9:41:31 AM

Anura from England Since: Apr, 2011 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#33111: Oct 12th 2018 at 9:41:42 AM

They could bring that back for the Bojack movie. Gohan must become the new Champion to stop Bojack from stealing plundering Christmas!

Edited by Anura on Oct 12th 2018 at 5:42:15 PM

A society grows great when old men plant trees whose shade they know they will never sit in.
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#33112: Oct 12th 2018 at 9:43:28 AM

Remember when MUI Goku and Limit Break Jiren were going at each other full force, and Goku started to look like he was winning, only for him to gas out before Jiren and lose? Not an issue with Buu there. He could just zap Goku's body back to being good as new and let him take care of the still-damaged and still-drained Jiren easily.

While Jiren's standing there?

Ask Dende how well that worked out for him.

...shit, Goku probably wouldn't even let him do that anyway because it's cheating.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Oct 12th 2018 at 10:44:22 AM

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Kamiccolo Since: May, 2018
#33113: Oct 12th 2018 at 9:49:57 AM

Buu doesn't actually need to be close to people to heal him, and Jiren was about to be distracted for several minutes by Jobza anyway. He could have easily healed Goku then. Essentially any time he's not directly being confronted by one of the exactly three or four foes there that are stronger than him (Jiren, Toppo, Kale/Kefla, and maybe Dyspo), he can be healing someone. And all of them were continuously busy anyway.

And Goku wouldn't care if Buu did it, not even Super Tardku. He had no issue taking a bag of senzus against the Zamasus or trying to gang up on Jiren 4-1. Nor did he object to Kaioshin's plan to have Buu be the medic in the manga.

Edited by Kamiccolo on Oct 12th 2018 at 9:53:11 AM

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#33114: Oct 12th 2018 at 10:13:29 AM

What Goku will or won't object to is entirely up to Toriyama's whims.

While you're right that he didn't have these issues before (or in the manga) I question as to whether our favourite Author wound't opt to have Goku go Honour Before Reason if it suited the plot.

Of course, I'm also notorious for selling him short on a lot of things, so my own words should be taken with a few hundred grains of salt.

One Strip! One Strip!
randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#33115: Oct 12th 2018 at 10:24:06 AM

In a tournament, Kakarotto would object to healing...

More likely...

It's a life or life situation...

Edited by randomness4 on Oct 12th 2018 at 10:24:39 AM

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fasoman1996 Google "big ears" from Argentina (A.K.A. Naziland) Since: Dec, 2014 Relationship Status: Baby don't hurt me!
Google "big ears"
#33116: Oct 12th 2018 at 10:31:28 AM

Except Freezer.

He will heal him to teach him humility

Uni cat
unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#33117: Oct 12th 2018 at 10:34:05 AM

Buu and Gotenks both seem like the kind of dumbasses who wouldn't pay enough attention to the rules and would possibly ring themselves out for some fucking reason.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#33118: Oct 12th 2018 at 11:12:29 AM

Goku agreeing to have Buu be the medic doesn't mean he'd be cool with being healed himself.

Like.

He didn't object to having Senzu at the Cell Games. But he did give one to Cell.

He used the Potara but later decided he didn't like it and crushed it.

What Goku intellectually knows to be a good idea and what Goku wants in the short term are two different animals, and the latter usually wins out over the former in the heat of the moment. He's emotionally-driven.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Oct 12th 2018 at 12:13:49 PM

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unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#33119: Oct 12th 2018 at 11:28:59 AM

I'm just surprised that we can use "Goku" and "intellectually" in the same sentence.

Darthwyn leader of Inherit from The void Since: Feb, 2016 Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
leader of Inherit
#33120: Oct 12th 2018 at 11:29:51 AM

To be fair Dende is a lot weaker than Buu and wouldn't have much of a way to defend himself. Buu would be more capable of taking a hit.

"Shall I use you, or make you mine... I'm not so sure what I'll do." - Dorthy
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#33121: Oct 12th 2018 at 11:31:25 AM

Though Jiren is so far above Buu the latter prolly couldn’t get a heal in.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#33122: Oct 12th 2018 at 12:35:06 PM

Buu's ability to take a hit is irrelevant when he just needs to be knocked out-of-bounds. Jiren is supposed to be stronger than Beerus, IIRC, who was batting Buu around like a ping-pong ball with no difficulty.

If Jiren wanted to take him out of the fight, Buu would last about as long as Dende did against Frieza.

There are plenty of ways to write around Buu's healing in the Tournament of Power. The main problem, like I noted before, is all the cool characters that Toriyama and Toei both wanted to introduce and play around with, who would be turned to candy in the first five seconds if Buu was present.

There's a reason this was written as a battle royale. Boardwipes are not conducive to that reason.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Oct 12th 2018 at 1:37:43 PM

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Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#33123: Oct 12th 2018 at 12:47:56 PM

The candy beam isn't any harder to write around than the mass explosions, which literally any character that powerful can do. And the heavy hitters in the TOP are miles ahead of where Boo is.

Boo's stamina isn't really infinite, as Vegeta observes when Fat Boo and Kid Boo fight.

Even his healing isn't a problem. Just do what the manga did with Trunks' healing and establish limits. All we've seen him do is heal injuries quickly, make it take longer to restore someone's stamina so that when Boo is healing someone it takes him out of commission for a while.

Boo wouldn't work in Toei's version of the TOP where the tournament is stretched out for thirty episodes and focus is spread out all over the place, but that version already made no sense with the existing cast. The manga version is much more fast paced, so there's less fridge logic with stronger characters not immediately eliminating weaker ones - Kale even does the big 'explosive wave' to knock out a bunch of competitors at once. Boo would work just fine in that set up.

Darthwyn leader of Inherit from The void Since: Feb, 2016 Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
leader of Inherit
#33124: Oct 12th 2018 at 4:14:57 PM

[up][up] My point was that there is a big difference between a healer that can actually defend themselves and a healer that is just a sitting duck and would need a meat shield to protect them from the weakest of fighters.

"Shall I use you, or make you mine... I'm not so sure what I'll do." - Dorthy
fasoman1996 Google "big ears" from Argentina (A.K.A. Naziland) Since: Dec, 2014 Relationship Status: Baby don't hurt me!
Google "big ears"
#33125: Oct 12th 2018 at 4:20:49 PM

But Little Green is the white mage. And no one fucks with the white mage

Uni cat

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