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Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#3276: Feb 14th 2013 at 8:53:52 AM

Nuova Shenron was born from an evil wish (King Piccolo's wish for youth), and as such is inversely heroic. Oceanus was born from a... morally-ambiguous one (Panties) and is somewhat less evil than the other world-ravaging ones as such (I think all she really does is troll a port town and mess around with their fishing industry?). And Syn was born from the most grandiose and selfless wish, reviving all of Frieza's victims, and as such is inversely the most wicked and vile of the whole lot.

Haze, Rage, Naturon, and Eis were all born from pretty selfless wishes and are pretty evil.

It's a good thing the Namekian dragon balls were the ones used to wish back all of Buu's victims, I'd hate to see how evil something born from THAT wish would be.

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Medigo0 Since: Jun, 2012
#3277: Feb 14th 2013 at 8:54:25 AM

Plus there is the fact that throughout the show 10 wishes were made with that dragon, so 3 wishes do not even get acknowledged

Enlong Court Dragon from The Underground Facility Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
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#3278: Feb 14th 2013 at 8:56:10 AM

How can one determnine Demon King Piccolo's wish as being inherently evil? He did evil things with it, but even something like wishing someone back from the dead can end up being evil.

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wanderlustwarrior Role Model from Where Gods Belong Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
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#3279: Feb 14th 2013 at 8:57:58 AM

Wishing for youth isn't really an evil wish, though. Sure the person casting it is, but the wish itself isn't.[up]Quite.

Didn't Dende increase the number of wishes Shenron could grant? Couldn't he have healed the dragon balls?

Clearly it's his fault.

edited 14th Feb '13 8:58:19 AM by wanderlustwarrior

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#3281: Feb 14th 2013 at 9:07:35 AM

I think intent is part of what makes them evil or not. It is clearly obvious Piccolo intended to use the wish for evil, whereas it's evident the wishes to revive Frieza's victims were for good. So apparently the Dragon Balls can recognize intent when granting wishes.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
wanderlustwarrior Role Model from Where Gods Belong Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
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#3282: Feb 14th 2013 at 9:17:13 AM

[up][up]I was mostly joking there.

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#3283: Feb 14th 2013 at 9:18:39 AM

Let's blame Dende for everything. It's his fault Raditz attacked the earth.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
wanderlustwarrior Role Model from Where Gods Belong Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
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#3284: Feb 14th 2013 at 9:22:44 AM

Nope, that was Super Kami Guru's fault.

I wonder how they're going to handle Dende once he comes back.

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#3285: Feb 14th 2013 at 9:27:17 AM

No, Super Kami Guru is only responsible for causing a drought and sending Lord Slug to Earth.

As for Dende, I presume he'll probably be much the same, though maybe his job as the new Kami will go to his head even moreso than being a white mage.

edited 14th Feb '13 9:27:47 AM by Anomalocaris20

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
CobraPrime Sharknado Warning from Canada Since: Dec, 1969 Relationship Status: Robosexual
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#3286: Feb 14th 2013 at 10:03:19 AM

The Shadow Dragon thing still doesn't make sense... No matter how it's spun.

So reviving Bora - a single dude, spawns a Dragon. Wishing for panties spawns a dragon. Reviving Cell's Victims? (And he killed entire cities) ? Nope.

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#3287: Feb 14th 2013 at 10:08:25 AM

That confuses me.

Maybe it was random which dragons cooresponded to which wish, and that one was just left out?

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
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#3288: Feb 14th 2013 at 10:12:08 AM

I think the fact that, immediately following the granting of his wish, Demon King Piccolo killed Shenron pretty firmly identifies it as an evil wish, even if the stated wish itself was pretty benign.

Also, this was said on the previous page:

Eh. Super Saiyan 4 really contradicts the message that stacking transformation upon transformation is the wrong way to do things, and presents a much better "final form" in Gohan's "Ultimate" stage. Hey, speaking of which, GT totally abandoned that with no explanation. STRONG SENSE OF CONTINUITY!

This confused me greatly because I'm not sure at what point DBZ has ever presented the message that stacking transformations is the wrong way to do things.

Frieza curbstomps the entire protagonist group by stacking transformations, and everything Goku can come up with falls apart until he finally transforms, gaining the power to beat Frieza. Later, Cell would never have become a threat if he hadn't transformed, but allowing him to transform proves to be the fatal mistake that makes him unbeatable, until Gohan transforms all the way into SSJ 2. Following that, Goku transforms to SSJ 3 and is explicitly stated to have been able to beat Buu, but didn't because he wanted to try something other than transformation stacking to beat him. His trump card, fusion, falls apart as Gotenks isn't strong enough to fight Super Buu until he transforms into SSJ 3, and then he can. Then Buu absorbs Gotenks and Gohan, and a combination of a fusion AND a transformation beats him, but again, Vegitto fails to kill Buu when he could, allowing Buu to transform into Kid Buu. Kid Buu is unbeatable until the Spirit Bomb, but even then the Spirit Bomb isn't strong enough until a wish made on one of the Dragons powers up Goku enough that he can transform, gaining the strength to defeat Buu with the Spirit Bomb.

Transformation is consistently portrayed as the go-to Win Card throughout the series. If there is any central message regarding transformation, it seems to be, "Transformation is awesome and you should always, always do it. Just don't forget to win the fight after you've transformed."

That's less anti-transformation and more "Don't be stupid."

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wanderlustwarrior Role Model from Where Gods Belong Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
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#3289: Feb 14th 2013 at 10:16:08 AM

No, still not an evil wish. Evil person, not an evil wish.

Consider this: reviving Goku means hundreds of animals have to die to feed his appetite. Reviving Frieza's victims meant that Vegeta, a once and future murderer, would be revived. Wishing for panties takes money out of the hands of clothing merchants. Are those wishes evil?

CobraPrime Sharknado Warning from Canada Since: Dec, 1969 Relationship Status: Robosexual
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#3290: Feb 14th 2013 at 10:18:19 AM

[up][up] Hell, if you want to make it even more of an ongoing theme, in the Pilaf Saga, only Goku turning into Ozaru allows Oolong to make the Panties wish.

Roshi can only put out Fire Mountain by Transforming, and its how he blows up the moon and stops a rampaging Goku by transforming to his ultra buff max power form (And don't tell me it's not a transformation, dude frikkin quadruples in size and has biceps larger than kid Goku!)

Zarbon can only defeat Vegeta by Transforming.

edited 14th Feb '13 10:18:27 AM by CobraPrime

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#3291: Feb 14th 2013 at 10:21:42 AM

Wishing for panties takes money out of the hands of clothing merchants.

Were those merchant fair trade? I mean, if they employ child labor or not affects the whole moral compass thing...

(I'd point out technically it's not if the wish is "good" or "Evil", it's Selfish vs Selfless. Hence, Youth = Selfish. Reviving someone else? Selfless (Which is debatable). Whishing of Panties? Both, since Oolong is a pervert, but he also had to save the world).

edited 14th Feb '13 10:27:15 AM by CobraPrime

GethKnight Since: Apr, 2010
#3292: Feb 14th 2013 at 10:27:08 AM

Roshi didn't transform. He just flexed his pecks to get ready.

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#3293: Feb 14th 2013 at 10:28:11 AM

Flexing his muscle caused him to explode in mass? Hell, they even call it a form and a transformation in the dbz wiki :-P

GethKnight Since: Apr, 2010
#3294: Feb 14th 2013 at 10:32:20 AM

Well, his muscles got larger that's it . Happens in real life. Just without energy blasts.

CobraPrime Sharknado Warning from Canada Since: Dec, 1969 Relationship Status: Robosexual
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#3295: Feb 14th 2013 at 10:40:08 AM

Going from This to To this in a second does not not happen in real life.

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#3296: Feb 14th 2013 at 10:41:59 AM

Super-buff Master Roshi always makes me laugh.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
CobraPrime Sharknado Warning from Canada Since: Dec, 1969 Relationship Status: Robosexual
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#3297: Feb 14th 2013 at 10:44:23 AM

I'd have watched an entire show about super buff roshi going around kicking ass and taking names.

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#3298: Feb 14th 2013 at 10:45:19 AM

That would be awesome. There's not enough shows where the Badass Grandpa is the protagonist.

edited 14th Feb '13 10:45:49 AM by Anomalocaris20

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
Enlong Court Dragon from The Underground Facility Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
Court Dragon
#3299: Feb 14th 2013 at 10:46:03 AM

Jackie Chun: Enter the Dragonballs

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CobraPrime Sharknado Warning from Canada Since: Dec, 1969 Relationship Status: Robosexual
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#3300: Feb 14th 2013 at 10:48:07 AM

The Good, the Bad, and the Roshi.

edited 14th Feb '13 10:53:19 AM by CobraPrime


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