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TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#32901: Oct 2nd 2018 at 6:49:04 AM

Yeah, IIRC Goku observes that Dabura is as powerful as Cell, but doesn't have the courtesy of clarifying whether he means Perfect Cell or Perfecter Cell. Arguments have raged for decades.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
fasoman1996 Google "big ears" from Argentina (A.K.A. Naziland) Since: Dec, 2014 Relationship Status: Baby don't hurt me!
Google "big ears"
#32902: Oct 2nd 2018 at 7:16:19 AM

Super Buu is closer to Cell.

I have been binge watching a few Buu Saga clips and there is one where Krillin is dancing with Mr. Popo after he suggests Goten and Trunks should fuse.

If the KOC was still a thing, that would be where it ticks.

Uni cat
unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#32903: Oct 2nd 2018 at 7:17:00 AM

Part of me wants to believe that Cell Games Gohan was the strongest Super Saiyan 2 until Battle of Gods, and none of Gohan, Goku, Vegeta or anyone else got close without Super Saiyan 3 or fusion or whatever. Or being Buu, obviously. Or Elder Kai's power-up.

Like. Supposedly, it's said that when Gohan got hit by Cell while protecting Vegeta, and his arm got broken, his power went down by half.

And he still annihilated Perfecter Cell.

Part of me just likes Gohan at the Cell Games being the peak anyone gets to "naturally" without Super Saiyan 3 or Fusion or any other power-up that objectively sucks in every way.

I also like to think Goku didn't know about Super Saiyan 2. Because, Super Saiyan 2 is supposedly twice as strong as 1, meaning Gohan in regular Super Saiyan was as strong as he was when he killed Cell with his arm broken.

Edited by unnoun on Oct 2nd 2018 at 10:19:19 AM

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#32904: Oct 2nd 2018 at 7:19:12 AM

Except for that part where Piccolo noted that Majin Vegeta was stronger than Gohan at the Cell Games.

Also, I've ranted before about how Gohan being stronger than Cell in Super Saiyan 1 is pure nonsense.

Edited by PushoverMediaCritic on Oct 2nd 2018 at 7:19:44 AM

Zennistrad from The Multiverse Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: I don't mind being locked in this eternal maze!
#32905: Oct 2nd 2018 at 7:20:10 AM

[up]x4 This might be additionally complicated by the fact that matchups in dragonball don't always operate strictly on raw power level output.

"About as strong as Perfect Cell" could mean multiple things.

Edited by Zennistrad on Oct 2nd 2018 at 10:19:54 AM

unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#32906: Oct 2nd 2018 at 7:20:42 AM

Majin Vegeta is a sucky power-up too.

EDIT: I like Gohan being stronger than Perfect Cell in Super Saiyan 1. Love it, even.

Gohan's problem being not that he didnt have the power, but that he wouldnt fight back.

I like Gohan's flaw being one of character and will rather than power.

Because, in practice? Even in the series Super Saiyan 2 does a lot more harm than it helps.

Gohan in Super Saiyan 2 is a monster. Everything that goes wrong, and leads to Goku dying, and Super Perfect Cell happening, is because Gohan got too strong and turned into a cocky, sadistic, evil little shit.

Super Saiyan 2 being useless, needless and actively detrimental fits the narrative better to me.

Gohan at the Cell Games is a comedy of errors and a massive tragedy of this poor kid with anger issues with the weight of everything on him.

He could have done the job all on his own, theoretically, the potential was there, Goku's expectations on him weren't unrealistic in terms of power, but of mindset.

Sometimes people want to make their kid the best at something, at all the pageants and recitals and competitions, and even if the kid is physically able to do it, it might still fuck them up in the head. Because of the pressurre.

Edited by unnoun on Oct 2nd 2018 at 10:35:34 AM

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#32907: Oct 2nd 2018 at 7:37:06 AM

Nope. I'm not engaging with this bullshit argument. We've had this SO MANY times before, and no-one ever changed their stances on it. It's pure and utter pointlessness, and I refuse to be a part of it.

unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#32908: Oct 2nd 2018 at 7:39:12 AM

...Can we at least agree that we all want to see the beauty pageant version of the #CellGames?

Like, at least Goku is a better parent than those people on Toddlers and Tiaras, right?

Edited by unnoun on Oct 2nd 2018 at 10:41:28 AM

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#32909: Oct 2nd 2018 at 7:46:56 AM

Sure, that might be fun. Don't know the first thing about fashion, so I don't know who would come out on top. It's got to be some kind of faux pas that three people are all wearing the same orange gi, though, right?

Seriously, though, I am not exaggerating when I say that argument is old as hell and never goes anywhere. I was curious and googled it, and I was having that argument (with you, actually) and calling it old two years ago. I made a choice a while ago to try as hard as I can to avoid beating all the argument dead horses in the Dragon Ball fandom, and I'm sticking by that.

Eriorguez Since: Jun, 2009
#32910: Oct 2nd 2018 at 7:47:39 AM

I can see Gohan being stronger than Perfect Cell as a Super Saiyan, but only if angered (or forced to give his all; adrenaline surge).

However, him getting angered AND going Super Saiyan 2 was just overkill, as seen when he had Cell down with 2 punches. Or as seen when Super Saiyan 2 Cell lost a Kamehameha duel versus a Gohan who was down an arm due to a minor distraction.

unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#32911: Oct 2nd 2018 at 7:54:17 AM

I still think it's true that it's disappointing that how fucked in the head nasty Gohan gets as a Super Saiyan 2 never really comes back.

Gohan is a lot more emotionally stable in Buu, and none of the Super Saiyan 2 characters seem as out of control angry and cruel at any point. Super Saiyan 3 seems to have no emotional issues. It just sucks because it hurts the user worse than the opponent. Not being so out of control with rage you might be more dangerous to a friend than an enemy.

Like. Gohan threatening Krillin is one of my favorite things.

Really, Super Saiyan 3, not Goten, Trunks or the tingly back thing, is the point where for me the very concept of Super Saiyan as a whole gets broken and ruined.

...The tingly back thing too, sure, but that happens after Super Saiyan 3.

Edited by unnoun on Oct 2nd 2018 at 11:58:53 AM

TyeDyeWildebeest Unreasonably Quirky from Big Rock Candy Mountain Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: How does it feel to treat me like you do?
Unreasonably Quirky
#32912: Oct 2nd 2018 at 7:54:36 AM

...Can we at least agree that we all want to see the beauty pageant version of the #Cell Games?

Make it a drag contest and have RuPaul as the judge and you've got a thumbs up from me.

Like. Gohan threatening Krillin is one of my favorite things.

When did that happen, again? All I remember is one of the Cell Jrs threatening to kill Krillin and Gohan being completely unmoved because Death Is Cheap.

Edited by TyeDyeWildebeest on Oct 2nd 2018 at 10:56:26 AM

No beer?! But if there's no beer, then there's no beef or beans!
unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#32913: Oct 2nd 2018 at 7:58:06 AM

[up] He points his palm at Krillin like he's going to shoot a ki blast at Krillin and the Cell Jr.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#32914: Oct 2nd 2018 at 7:59:53 AM

Piccolo lectures Gohan in Super that when Gohan gets overwhelming power, he becomes sadistic and power-mad. This is why he failed to finish off either Cell or Buu: because he fucked around posturing too much instead of finishing the job. I like that interpretation of Gohan, that as kind and gentle as he is, the boy's got a real sadistic side that comes out when he has all the power in the situation.

TyeDyeWildebeest Unreasonably Quirky from Big Rock Candy Mountain Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: How does it feel to treat me like you do?
Unreasonably Quirky
#32915: Oct 2nd 2018 at 8:04:15 AM

I don't think that trait is unique to Gohan, given that the Super Saiyan transformation was originally designed to be a Superpowered Evil Side. If anything, it's just Gohan's Saiyan half overtaking his human half.

Although this does remind me of a question I had about the finale. Goku tells Gohan to finish Cell off, and Gohan calls Goku out on his hypocrisy by rattling off all the times he let his enemy live for whatever reason.

My question is, how did he know about Goku letting Freeza power up to 100% if he wasn't around to see it?

No beer?! But if there's no beer, then there's no beef or beans!
unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#32916: Oct 2nd 2018 at 8:05:15 AM

[up][up] Right? I love it too.

Gohan has Issues.

On the surface he's a pacifist, and he's gentle and sweet and polite and kind.

But beneath that?

Like, it's this huge difference between Goku and Gohan, because even as enraged as Goku was as a Super Saiyan, he tried to let Freeza go, at the point where Freeza was too pathetic to kill, and too weak to be worth fighting. He tried, In his own way, to be merciful.

Gohan wanted to torture Cell. For Gohan, death was the mercy, and one he wasn't willing to provide.

Goku might prolong a fight or do something dumb because he likes fighting, because the thrill of the fight and all that, but that's not quite Gohan's problem.

Even when Gohan has all the power, he doesnt strictly like fighting. Just hurting people weaker than him that he hates.

Edited by unnoun on Oct 2nd 2018 at 11:09:56 AM

Moth13 Since: Sep, 2010
#32917: Oct 2nd 2018 at 8:14:29 AM

My question is, how did he know about Goku letting Freeza power up to 100% if he wasn't around to see it?

I was going to say maybe Tien or Yamcha told him, but in Abridged King Kai wasn't doing his constant play by play thing out loud.

I guess Goku probably told the story at one point.

Edited by Moth13 on Oct 2nd 2018 at 11:14:18 AM

unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#32918: Oct 2nd 2018 at 8:15:25 AM

"How did you know about the parts you weren't there for."

Also, the way he describes Goku letting Vegeta go for a better fight later is more in line with the manga but less in line with the abridged version where Vegeta said he was really sorry.

Like, in fairness, if we wanted to justify or reconcile things, he asked Vegeta if Vegeta was sorry, in a way that seemed like a leading question, like Goku was looking for an excuse to let Vegeta go.

Edited by unnoun on Oct 2nd 2018 at 12:03:20 PM

fasoman1996 Google "big ears" from Argentina (A.K.A. Naziland) Since: Dec, 2014 Relationship Status: Baby don't hurt me!
Google "big ears"
#32919: Oct 2nd 2018 at 11:27:43 AM

What do you expect from Bojack and his minions in the abridged version?

Who were the latter btw? I totally forgot.

Edited by fasoman1996 on Oct 2nd 2018 at 3:30:05 PM

Uni cat
Larkmarn Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Hello, I love you
#32920: Oct 2nd 2018 at 11:28:31 AM

There's a girl.

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TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#32921: Oct 2nd 2018 at 11:47:59 AM

Bojack's minions are Zangya and People Who Are Not Zangya.

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Arha Since: Jan, 2010
#32922: Oct 2nd 2018 at 11:51:33 AM

Wait, really? They reused People Who Are Not Zangya again? It feels like they get used for every single arc in this story!

fasoman1996 Google "big ears" from Argentina (A.K.A. Naziland) Since: Dec, 2014 Relationship Status: Baby don't hurt me!
Google "big ears"
#32923: Oct 2nd 2018 at 11:58:22 AM

Ah yes, the girl that flirts with Krillin.

It would be awkward for him if the movie takes place after the stinger.

Uni cat
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#32924: Oct 2nd 2018 at 11:59:58 AM

It never failes to amuse me that 18 always has a voice-line for her hatred of Zangya.

To the point she even called her a harlot once.

Edited by slimcoder on Oct 2nd 2018 at 11:59:32 AM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
unnoun Since: Jan, 2012

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