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PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#32801: Sep 26th 2018 at 7:16:24 AM

My theory is that the Kamehameha's multiplier is decreased by the Kaioken's multiplier.

So, say that Vegeta's Galick Gun has the same multiplier as the Kamehameha. It could look something like this:

Vegeta: 18,000 x 2.22 = 39,960

KKx3 Goku: 24,300 x 1.5: 36,450

KKx4 Goku: 32,400 x 1.4: 45,360

Edited by PushoverMediaCritic on Sep 26th 2018 at 7:16:09 AM

Fedetropes Call me Blast, not Fedetropes from Doomed universe Since: Dec, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Call me Blast, not Fedetropes
#32802: Sep 26th 2018 at 7:17:22 AM

It's his specialties after all

Also, about the absortion things, I guess that they learned of that mistake with super 17 and so is whole body could absorb energy

¡PONLE QUE DIGA!:"¡HUMONGOSAURIO HASTA LA MUERTE!"
unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#32803: Sep 26th 2018 at 7:18:38 AM

Yeah, but fuck Super 17 though.

Janemba, Cell, 19, and the original fucking 17 were basically better characters in every way.

Xeino Since: Jul, 2017
#32804: Sep 26th 2018 at 7:34:39 AM

19 and Gero/20's threat more or less being easily shut down by the simple act of tearing their hands off does prove Toriyama's editor who told him to make better villains right. They really couldn't have supported an entire arc by themselves in the way Freeza did. 16, 17 and 18 maybe could have but it's probably for the best that role ultimately did go to Cell.

Edited by Xeino on Sep 26th 2018 at 7:35:11 AM

Moth13 Since: Sep, 2010
#32805: Sep 26th 2018 at 9:09:14 AM

Super 17 was so dumb.

Goku: Oh no, this guy is absorbing all my attacks. I know! I'll shoot him with my most powerful Kamehameha in an attempt to overload him with energy!

*five seconds later*

Goku: How could this possibly have backfired on me???

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#32806: Sep 26th 2018 at 9:35:03 AM

To be fair, and I say this as someone who absolutely hates GT, it worked on Yakon.

Larkmarn Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Hello, I love you
#32807: Sep 26th 2018 at 10:01:37 AM

Also, I'd bet good money that was originally Toriyama's plan to defeat either 19 or 20.

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ultimatepheer Since: Mar, 2011
#32808: Sep 26th 2018 at 10:59:12 AM

I am still endlessly amused by the fact that the Android saga went through so many androids because Toriyama's editors kept asking if he really expected to take the android of the week seriously.

fasoman1996 Google "big ears" from Argentina (A.K.A. Naziland) Since: Dec, 2014 Relationship Status: Baby don't hurt me!
Google "big ears"
#32809: Sep 26th 2018 at 12:00:52 PM

It would have been interesting having 16, 17 and 18 as anatagonists but i can agree that they were kind of flat as villains and replacing them with Cell wasn't a bad idea.

Uni cat
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#32810: Sep 26th 2018 at 12:18:41 PM

19 and Gero/20's threat more or less being easily shut down by the simple act of tearing their hands off does prove Toriyama's editor who told him to make better villains right. They really couldn't have supported an entire arc by themselves in the way Freeza did. 16, 17 and 18 maybe could have but it's probably for the best that role ultimately did go to Cell.

I mean. If they had been the real villains of the arc, Vegeta probably wouldn't have been allowed to just rip 19's hands off. That's the narrative equivalent of going, "F*CK THIS we're doing something different."

Kinda like Majin Buu spontaneously developing the ability to absorb Gotenks so that Ultimate Gohan can stop mattering and the story can be about Goku and Vegeta again. I'm sure 19 and 20 would have been much more threatening if Toriyama never got cold feet about them carrying the arc.

Besides, the editor was put off by them being an old man and a clown, not by the energy absorption thing.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Sep 26th 2018 at 1:22:50 PM

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Kamiccolo Since: May, 2018
#32811: Sep 26th 2018 at 4:30:49 PM

Seeing as how Gero and 19 were meant to be the main villains of the arc before Toriyama's former editor said they looked stupid, I wonder if that energy drain gimmick was going to get used more. 19 and 20 are presented from the beginning as very weak (a sick SS Goku who is a shadow of his normal self is smacking 19 around like nothing a couple chapters after they're introduced), so it's not like he retconned their strength and abilities after getting that feedback (or at least, not at that point; too early, the former editor was reading it in Jump like anyone else and Toriyama had to be at least a chapter ahead). I can't help but think that he intended for them to start out as weak, and then level them up when the heroes got overconfident and fell for that energy drain trap. Then, the duo would have slowly exterminated humanity, leaving Trunks and Gohan inexplicably alive. Then it would have been revealed that the duo took their time and left Trunks and Gohan alive on purpose so they could keep 'fighting' them and use them as batteries to level up more.

Kind of like Zamasu now that I think about it. Maybe he recycled his outline and the original climax of the arc was dealing with a timeline-jumping Future Gero fusing with his present counterpart.

Edited by Kamiccolo on Sep 26th 2018 at 4:32:06 AM

unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#32812: Sep 27th 2018 at 5:10:19 AM

Wait a second, if people in the manga don't have last names, and if Bulma's mom isn't named Panchy in the text of the series itself, what the HFIL do they call her?

Is it really "Bulma's mom" every time?

unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#32813: Sep 27th 2018 at 5:13:19 AM

[up][up]I kinda feel gthe zamasu arc is pretty much toriyama reusing is old idea for the android here with goku and vegeta fighting two weird man that atack the future.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
Larkmarn Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Hello, I love you
#32814: Sep 27th 2018 at 5:59:41 AM

[up][up] Yes.

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fasoman1996 Google "big ears" from Argentina (A.K.A. Naziland) Since: Dec, 2014 Relationship Status: Baby don't hurt me!
Google "big ears"
#32815: Sep 27th 2018 at 6:15:54 AM

We call her GILF

Uni cat
Ikedatakeshi Baby dango from singapore Since: Nov, 2015 Relationship Status: Singularity
Baby dango
#32816: Sep 27th 2018 at 6:18:18 AM

Let's be honest, outside of his husband there isn't any other character that would refer to her by name, and neither have enough screentime nor reason to mention it.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#32817: Sep 27th 2018 at 7:20:30 AM

Yeah, Bulma's mom is a pretty minor character in the manga.

I'm surprised Toei didn't give her a name and 26 episodes fleshing out her life, though.

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unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#32818: Sep 27th 2018 at 7:25:29 AM

I wish.

Maybe something with Tights.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#32819: Sep 27th 2018 at 7:29:24 AM

I admit, I would totally watch a filler mini-arc about Bulma's mom's day if they went out of their way to have every character involved in the entire little mini-plot address her as "Bulma's Mom".

Edited by TobiasDrake on Sep 27th 2018 at 8:28:56 AM

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#32820: Sep 27th 2018 at 7:42:57 AM

TFS loves their continuity, so I do wonder when or if they'll at least reference Jaco.

fasoman1996 Google "big ears" from Argentina (A.K.A. Naziland) Since: Dec, 2014 Relationship Status: Baby don't hurt me!
Google "big ears"
#32821: Sep 27th 2018 at 7:50:16 AM

Bojack might reference him in some way. I think.

I do wonder if Bojack will take place after the stinger of episode 60. Just to see if Krillin is committed to 18 or if his abridged version would be infatuated with Zangya.

Uni cat
Moth13 Since: Sep, 2010
#32822: Sep 27th 2018 at 8:10:41 AM

By the way, the stuff about Videl seeing Gohan's last name and matching it with Goku's got me curious, so I looked up how the dubs handled it. In the original dub Videl finds out Goku had a son named Gohan and connects it with her classmate, and in the Kai dub she sees a picture of Goku and notices Gohan looked very similar.

Larkmarn Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Hello, I love you
#32823: Sep 27th 2018 at 10:15:51 AM

and notices Gohan looked very similar.

... what. Other than Toriyama's style Gohan's resemblance to Goku is... not a whole lot.

Hell, Gohan's resemblance to Young Gohan isn't a whole lot.

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Ghilz Perpetually Confused from Yeeted at Relativistic Velocities Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Perpetually Confused
#32824: Sep 27th 2018 at 10:36:49 AM

... what. Other than Toriyama's style Gohan's resemblance to Goku is... not a whole lot.

Toriyama's style accounts for 90% of their faces. It's like saying "If you don't look at them, they don't resemble one another". They have identical jaw shape, nose shape, eye shape, hair color, eyebrows.

Of course, so does Vegeta and 90% of Toriyama's character. but my point being that once you remove Toriyama's style, there aint much left to judge the two by. There is their hair. I guess?

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#32825: Sep 27th 2018 at 5:06:49 PM

Goku and Gohan have pretty similar eyes when they're not narrowed. Vegeta's eyes tend to be even sharper than Goku and Gohan at their sternest, and Vegeta also has those sunken temples.


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