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This mutual exchange of No, You was so productive. I'm proud of us both.
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Is there any real reason to think Gero is weaker than 19? Considering they both rely on absorbing power I'd think they start out as the same and 19 is the one fighting because Gero doesn't want to risk himself.
I mean. I seem to remember the interview about Gero's son indicating that 16's strength and passivity being because Gero didnt want to risk him or lose him. And there wasnt a control issue there.
Could be wrong.
Also, how the hell would Gero be so strong he lost control of the android version of himself.
Does Buu even have stamina? For all i know, he is the most powerful Perpetual-Motion Monster that the Dragon Ball Franchise has ever had. At least concerning Kid Buu.
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If you want to be technical, 19 has had more power than 20 had given that he absorbed energy from both SSJ Goku and Vegeta. But that doesn't really matter.
But i was wondering if that why he would give himself a weaker body than the ones he gave to the twins. Is it a case of Suicidal Overconfidence? Since he didn't knew about the Z Fighters going to Namek.
Edited by fasoman1996 on Sep 25th 2018 at 12:29:17 PM
Uni catWell, I did say they "start out" with the same power.
Also maybe you could handwave that with he couldn't do the procedure on himself? It begs the question of how he could turn himself into an Android at all then. Maybe 19 has enough scientific know-how to do the energy absorbing Android thing, but not the other.
It's not like 16 is some rebellious murder golem anyway.
He likes birds, pacifism, and murdering Son Goku.
You could argue the pacifism is the control issue. But I swear the interview mentions Gero made 16 gentle so as to not get into too much trouble unnecessarily and risk damage.
And he made 16 stupidly powerful so if 16 got into trouble anyway, he'd be able to survive it.
So Toriyama's interviews do make it seem like Gero was just lying to 17 and 18 in the cave, yeah.
Edited by unnoun on Sep 26th 2018 at 10:23:18 AM
One wonders if 16 and Broly would get along. Probably not, because Broly is a Omnicidal Maniac anyway.
Abridged versions on the other hand....
Uni catHuh. I guess that's a notable thing about Geet's fight. It shows us just what it takes for fighters with lower power levels to beat someone with a higher one.
Though Goku was stronger when he used Kaioken X3 and 4. That's the ultimate reason why they eventually took him down: that damage he took from that part of the fight.
One Strip! One Strip!It occurs to me, every other Z arc occurred over the span of days, whereas the fight against Vegeta probably wasn't more than a couple of hours. Combine that with most fights after Vegeta being 1-v-1's, and it's no surprise Vegeta lost when he was ganged up on continuously for several hours straight, without Freezer's 'not final form yadda yadda' thing to keep him going.
I kinda figured Gero went for the energy-absorbing type because even if it's weaker, being able to completely nullify all beam attacks is a huge boon in a fight. Meaning he's shut down the Kamehameha and Spirit Bomb (the two techniques that did the most damage to Vegeta) and the technique that killed Raditz.
And if he's not strong enough, just absorb the energy of the opponent.
Edited by Larkmarn on Sep 26th 2018 at 8:46:23 AM
Found a Youtube Channel with political stances you want to share? Hop on over to this page and add them.Yeah. Had it not been for Super Saiyan (and the three years of training they got due to the warning from Trunks, even if Piccolo is the only one besides the Saiyans that benefited from it), Gero's preparations would have likely worked.
Now that I think about it, this is another example of Goku derailing other attempts to fight him beyond brute strength via uncanny luck...even if his heart disease prevented him from taking advantage of it.
One Strip! One Strip!I mean, everyone ganged up on Freeza.
Unless that's what you were saying. And Vegeta still had Oozaru.
Everyone ganged up on Kid Buu as well, and from what I can tell nothing even really slowed him down.
Kid Buu doesnt explicitly have unlimited energy or stamina like the androids, but he sure does act like it.
EDIT: Ooh, also, as for Gero not making Android 20 exactly like 17 and 18, Gero was pretty old and 17 and 18 seemed like teenagers.
Young bodies are more adaptable and have better regenerative properties. Kids can even regrow fingertips.
It's possible that 17 and 18 specifically relied somehow on having their organic bodies mostly intact, for some reason, which is how 18 could have Marron and only two of 17's three kids were adopted.
17 says in the Super Manga that the two adopted kids were the oldest ones of the three, so. Like, maybe he thought he was sterile until kid number 3 happened. Maybe the procedure affected sperm count or something without getting rid of them entirely. I dunno.
Anyway, Gero's natural body was a lot older, so even if he could do the procedure to himself he might not have survived it.
Edited by unnoun on Sep 26th 2018 at 9:51:06 AM
Yeah. The difference between Vegeta and Freeza was that Freeza was so damned strong that ganging up on him meant about as much as fighting him 1 on 1: nothing.
Goku had to damage his body badly to do it, but he was able to hurt Vegeta enough that they was something to work with. There was no hope of doing that with Freeza until Super Saiyan entered the picture.
Hell, they were lucky they were even able to do anything to Vegeta: remember when Krillin, Gohan and Yamcha wanted to try and just Piccolo during his fight with Goku (and when he was pretty badly beat up himself): Piccolo pushed them back while barely trying.
A lot of stars aligned to let them beat Vegeta.
One Strip! One Strip!Goku did most of the bulk of the fight by worning down Vegeta. Yajirobe had a decisive blow by cutting off his tail, Gohan further damaged Vegeta as a Great Ape and Krillin is the one that hit him with the Spirit Bomb.
There wasn't any fight that had more than one fighter gang up on others until Kid Buu. And that last was a combined effort of Vegeta, Satan and Fat Buu to distract him long enough for Goku to charge up the Spirit Bomb. And that's not including the people of earth giving him energy as well as Dende using the Porunga wish to restore Goku's stamina.
Edited by fasoman1996 on Sep 26th 2018 at 10:46:06 AM
Uni cat![]()
Can we say because he's nuts?
He was willing to kidnap and murder a lot of people just to wreck Goku. This includes bombs that could destroy the entire planet.
And then there's Cell. Oh, Cell.
Yeah, I'm personally saying Gero was crazy town in answer to why he moved his brain.
Edited by HandsomeRob on Sep 26th 2018 at 7:48:04 AM
One Strip! One Strip!It's kind of a shame that video games hardly ever use Gero's energy absorption in an interesting way. One of the only ones I can think of is Supersonic Warriors 2, which was a weird approach. In that game, instead of draining Piccolo's energy, Gero decided to drain Gohan's, and he was somehow able to tap into and absorb some of Gohan's hidden potential, making Gero super strong. He beat up our heroes, then he woke up 17, 18, and 16 and beat them into submission. Then, he and Future Cell teamed up to allow Cell to absorb 17 and 18.
Gero's story mode ended with him getting paranoid of Perfect Cell's power and tricking him into a time machine to banish him to a different timeline. One of the most notable bits about that ending was that Cell seemed genuinely surprised and hurt that his own creator would betray him like that.
I don't think you can tap into hidden potential like that.
I mean, if how much energy Gero can absorb surpasses that of the aforementioned fighters, then ok, but there was never any indication that such things were possible.
Though actual interaction between Cell and his creator is something that fascinates me.
One Strip! One Strip!Dragon Ball has a lot of interactions that would be interesting seeing but never happened because the character is either dead or sidelined.
Unrelated, do you think the reason Vegeta dislikes Krillin so much (besides being an asshole and Krillin being a Butt-Monkey) is because he almost killed him twice?
Uni catAnyway, back to Gero, there is still the question of why he made his fully artificial body an energy absorbing type instead of a weaponized type like 16.
Maybe he went all-out on 16 with rare, expensive materials because he loved his son, but. That's me adding a justification post-hoc.
Even if 16 was designed in some grief-stricken engineering bender (#relatable), I hope Gero kept the blueprints so he could make repairs. If you care about this replacement robot-son so much you should know how to help him and fix him.
I guess Krillin and Trunks never actually found 16's blueprints, just 17's, but I assume they existed somewhere. Maybe in the top level of the lab, where they got destroyed by Trunks.
In FighterZ I think it gets mentioned that Gero had other labs besides the one near North City, which makes some sense, maybe, at a stretch. A rather generous stretch. Like some Mr. Incredible or Elastigirl yoga stretch shit. The Red Ribbon Army was pretty globe-spanning, so. Sure, why not, but that's still some bullshit to expect me to believe that.
Anyway, if 16's blueprints were around, presumably Gero could have made a body that was not identical but similar in capabilities.
Unless all of 16's capabilities took up a lot of space in the chassis, and Gero was lucky that his son was some 7 or 8 foot bodybuilding gym rat jackoff.
He built his Android 20 body seemingly based on his own body at the time, which is a lot smaller and thinner than 16's, so.
Edited by unnoun on Sep 26th 2018 at 10:13:30 AM
Which, as Vegeta demonstrated, is really a better idea in theory than in practice.
Theory: If my adversary is stronger than me, I can absorb his energy to close the gap and even surpass him.
Practice: I should get within melee-range of a combatant capable of tearing my spine out with his bare hands, and then remain in that range for an extended period of time attempting to grapple with them.
Which I still find impressive.
Vegeta fired his Galick Gun at 18,000 battle power. Goku fired his Kamehameha at 24,000. And the Galick Gun was winning. Goku had to kick up his Kaioken to 32,000 battle power to overcome the weaker combatant's beam.
Vegeta's beams are the best beams.
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