The first time he faked a stomach injury was to get out of fighting Cell again. It's literally the same thing.
He only fought Cell because he was being an idiot and thought he could win. Once he realized the truth, he wanted no bar of it. Throwing 16's head is brave, but he did that because he wanted to help without risking his safety too much.
Again Boo, once again he thought his tricks would work. He befriended Boo purely to save his own life, and was even going to take back his request for Boo to stop killing people if necessary to save his skin.
He definitely is someone who developed over time rather than always bring the kind of person who would give money to Goku or motivate the Earthlings to contribute to the Genki Dama.
That is definitely not the case. Toriyama has shown that he can make weaker characters matter without the contrivances and lapses in internal consistency that Super used. It's very clear that he simply doesn't feel the need to create things for them at this stage. It's just not necessary, the story does not revolve around them.
Edited by Saiga on Sep 10th 2018 at 7:03:56 PM
What! When was that ever said?
Dick move Satan! Dick move!
One Strip! One Strip!
...That seems like a heat of the moment thing said out of fear because he wasn't sure if his gamble was working, but it's not really a thing worth having an argument over.
It does seem like something Satan would say at that point (where he hadn't quite undergone his full development yet).
One Strip! One Strip!The "Super threw away power levels" meme is not really consistent with what actually happens in Super. I mean, yes, there's stupid bullshit like Krillin making Goku go Blue, or Kale beating Blue, getting stronger, and losing horribly 2-1 against Red, or Zamasu becoming a million times stronger by sitting around for 17 years, or Roshi decking Frost, or Piccolo losing a Zarbon tier guy, or Krillin getting damaged by a bullet, or Freeza crushing Gohan despite explicitly having a power level of 1.3 million, or Trunks going from moderately stronger than Dabra to smacking around Rose Black five minutes later... but that was all in Z too. More specifically, the anime. There we had stuff like base Goku beating up Ultimate Gohan, going SS2, and then getting toyed with by Super Buu; Pure Buu being simultaneously stronger than Buuhan and weaker than Buutenks via separate statements and also within rivaling range of SS2 Vegeta and Fat Buu; Krillin being able to hold his own against Imperfect Cell better than Kamiccolo and #17; Yamcha and Tenshinhan holding their own against the Cell Juniors two minutes before one tanks a Final Flash from MSS Vegeta like so much air; Gohan being simultaneously helpless against 3rd form Freeza yet capable of smacking around 50% Freeza; Broly being both completely immune to SS Vegeta's attacks yet staggered and wounded by a kick from base Goku; Androids 14 and 15 being on par with base Vegeta/Trunks AND SS Vegeta/Trunks; and so on.
Toei does this in all of their productions; let's not even get into GT. It's not a creative choice, it's laziness. It's absolutely nothing new and very likely none of it comes from Toriyama's bare story outline. The Super manga, by contrast, which is both more barebones and more closely supervised by Toriyama (some pages even written and drawn directly by him), keeps things pretty restricted. The only BS in there is #17 getting to SS 3 level by bumming around the forest for 20 years, and even then, there's at least some justification (both because he's not Blue level and because it was explained he was sparring with the Cell Juniors).
I've said multiple times that he shouldn't have kept Tien and Yamcha around in the Cell arc, since plot wise they add nothing aside from Tien's intervention which could be written around anyway (by having Vegeta and Trunks arrive, what, 30 seconds earlier?). The only thing Yamcha did is get jobbed, which is beyond pointless anyway for him.
Toriyama doesn't bother dragging out Oolong and Puar either even though their skill sets are vastly, vastly superior to "another fighter who isn't in the top 3 strongest here, or even close". Heck, Oolong would probably add more to the team dynamic than either Yamcha or Tien. They both shouldn't even be in the arc; they serve no purpose there, Toriyama isn't clever enough to think of good uses for either and DBZ's story format doesn't offer good room for many characters anyway (Krillin was basically useless in the Namek arc as well and for a good while he was basically the captain of Team Not-Assholes).
note
And on this note, the only moments I've seen Tien mention being grumpy about so last season are this blink-and-you'll-miss-it comment right here about being irrelevant and his angry "Fuck Power levels, Fuck Super Saiyans" rant before plowing Semiperfect Cell into the ground - which came directly after Cell tried to push his buttons. I honestly can't think of any other examples than those two.
I guess you haven't seen Ultra Instinct Roshi yet...
Edited by Sigilbreaker26 on Sep 10th 2018 at 9:31:32 AM
"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"Soooo...did it also make Roshi stronger, or would it not look as cool?
Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.No it isn't. I didnt say he forced Goku to use Blue. Its just ridiculous to use a form and then not actually fight anywhere near power. Completely meaningless. Changing the colour of his hair does nothing without the corresponding strength of the form.
Kuririn pushing SS 1 out of Goku is BS in itself, and more specific than Jiren using an unknown level of power on Roshi. We KNOW Jiren was holding back, because he's surprised to see Roshi dodge the first hit, then easily knocks him out after adjusting.
Edited by Saiga on Sep 10th 2018 at 8:05:12 PM
The narrative of their fight was that Krillin was weaker than base Goku but able to momentarily catch him off guard and push him out of bounds by using tricks. Goku's only way of stopping Krillin's blasts was with a large burst of ki, so he went Super Saiyan 1. Maybe Kaioken would've worked just as well, but Goku doesn't really use Kaioken in base anymore.
Unfortunately, this is still the abridged thread, and Super talk is still off-topic unless it's regarding the TFS shorts.
If Kriller is able to catch this Karrot off guard...something is wrong.
Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.I really hate how Ressurection 'F' started this whole "the characters can be caught off guard and be hurt by attacks infinitely weaker than them" bullshit.
Let the joy of love give you an answer! Check out my book!

I knew somebody was going to take this the wrong way lol. I was fucking waiting for it.
No, I did not say that, please stop putting words in my mouth. What I said is that Tien should stop being bitter and angry over something he has no control over. He's never going to be as strong as Goku or Vegeta or any new villain they face, yes it sucks, but he's not a Saiyan and he can't suddenly become a Saiyan. So instead of whining over something he has no control over, he should focus on what he can do, no matter how limited it is.
And there's a very clear difference between a character trying against impossible odds and a character becoming angry and bitter about their place that they have no control over. One is somewhat admirable the other is a pathetic loser who needs to get over themselves. Abridged!Tien falls in the latter category.
As for Super, I'm not beating a dead horse. If you're apart of the "Power Levels are bullshit, fuck'em" crowd. Fine, cool. But please stop insisting that people who criticize that stuff are just "angry fans" instead of people with their own opinion on Super that doesn't necessarily coincide with yours. Opinion Myopia is ugly.
A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.