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Ghilz Perpetually Confused from Yeeted at Relativistic Velocities Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Perpetually Confused
#31826: Sep 9th 2018 at 7:20:51 PM

Pretty sure King Choppa is still stronger than Satan. Or, at least, he was.

Besides actually putting up a fight against Goku, something Satan could never hope to do, Chompa was good enough to win a World Tournament without taking a hit, Prior to Goku and Co flocking to the tournament. He's clearly a step above Satan. Chompa is strong enough for Roshi and Yamcha both to take note of his skill during the 22nd World Martial Arts Tournament.

Does Yajirobe use Ki?

IIRC, in the Anime, Yajirobe does do Ki sensing.

Edited by Ghilz on Sep 9th 2018 at 10:24:53 AM

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#31827: Sep 9th 2018 at 7:39:47 PM

Chapa. He's named after chapati, a type of flatbread.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Kamiccolo Since: May, 2018
#31828: Sep 9th 2018 at 7:53:27 PM

In DB Forever, Toriyama is asked how strong Mister Satan is, and he answers that "I think he's pretty strong. But...I get the feeling he's not quite as strong as Bob Sapp (laughs)".

So, Mr. Satan is just slightly weaker than an extremely strong guy from reality (Sapp had a 600 pound bench press and 800 pound squat) and presumably skilled enough to beat him up since Sapp's skills were crap (I'd say pre-Babidi Spopovich would be a good Sapp stand-in considering his backstory, size, and build), but he's no superhuman. At least in the manga. In the anime that's obviously not the case since he does things like pick up boulders, send a 400-pound man flying with a kick, leap dozens of feet into the air, and punch through buses.

Edited by Kamiccolo on Sep 9th 2018 at 7:54:14 AM

JonnasN from Porto, Portugal Since: Jul, 2012
#31829: Sep 10th 2018 at 12:32:48 AM

Generally speaking, if a comment ends with [laughs], it's best not to take it seriously.

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#31830: Sep 10th 2018 at 1:29:15 AM

Chappa and Panput came from a time when the Tenkaichi Budokai was prestidigious, whereas the announcer describes the 24th as being boring. Now, he says this is because Goku et al stopped appearing, but the others' reactions to what it became suggest that it totally dropped in quality.

Bob Sapp is also a jobber in Japan, which makes sense why Toriyama made that comparison.

Sigilbreaker26 Serial Procrastinator Since: Nov, 2017
Serial Procrastinator
#31831: Sep 10th 2018 at 4:41:43 AM

At one point in the Buu Saga Piccolo says that Mr. Satan truly deserves the title of "Champion of Humanity" and he's right - Mr. Satan was not only absolutely instrumental to ending the conflict in the final scenario, but he almost nipped it in the bud way earlier by befriending Fat Buu.

I doubt that he would be able to go very far in OG Dragonball though. (Even if he did punch a hole in a bus that one time). In something really low-power like Kenichi Mightiest Disciple he'd be pretty good though. And I'd definitely bet money on him over Panputto.

Edited by Sigilbreaker26 on Sep 10th 2018 at 11:42:22 AM

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"
fasoman1996 Google "big ears" from Argentina (A.K.A. Naziland) Since: Dec, 2014 Relationship Status: Baby don't hurt me!
Google "big ears"
#31832: Sep 10th 2018 at 5:10:02 AM

Without Mr. Satan, i doubt the Z fighters could have defeated Cell and Buu. He is truly an underdog hero for the out of universe crowd.

Edited by fasoman1996 on Sep 10th 2018 at 9:09:42 AM

Uni cat
ultimatepheer Since: Mar, 2011
#31833: Sep 10th 2018 at 7:03:50 AM

He isn't even that bad a guy, to be honest; any and all cowardice he shows is in the face of magic kung fu bullshit that grossly outmatches him even at its weakest points.

Larkmarn Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Hello, I love you
#31834: Sep 10th 2018 at 7:06:33 AM

I don't think anyone can blame him for cowardice in the face of that, but his bravado, trying to bring the real heroes down, and taking credit for it? Plain shitty.

Like, does anyone cite "being afraid of people magnitudes stronger than him" when they say they don't like him? I sure don't.

Edited by Larkmarn on Sep 10th 2018 at 10:10:14 AM

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unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#31835: Sep 10th 2018 at 7:32:33 AM

In fairness, it's not like most of the characters wanted the fame or fortune.

Gohan just lost his dad, and if the paparazzi managed to piss him off enough to push him into Super Saiyan 2 that would end poorly.

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#31836: Sep 10th 2018 at 7:37:07 AM

I think I remember someone posting a fanfic that showed a slightly less selfish motivation behind why Satan took the credit (that people needed an explanation, and the Z Warriors were, as always, outright uninterested in doing so).

Even as far back as King Piccolo, they were rather coy about taking credit for their actions (Bulma refusing to give Goku's name when asked who saved the day).

Hell, at the beginning of Super, Goku almost refused the reward money from Satan because he thought it'd be too much trouble. Now they might not be wrong, but people do need to know what happened I think, mostly so they aren't left panicking about if another disaster will happen...which happens anyway, but still.

One Strip! One Strip!
fasoman1996 Google "big ears" from Argentina (A.K.A. Naziland) Since: Dec, 2014 Relationship Status: Baby don't hurt me!
Google "big ears"
#31837: Sep 10th 2018 at 7:45:01 AM

Like that one time the planet blew up out of nowhere. But that was undone in minutes.

I'm curious how would TFS handle Marron. Would she factor into Krillin's owned count? Because i expect a joke about him not expecting 18 being able to have children only to be proven wrong. *Ding*

Uni cat
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#31838: Sep 10th 2018 at 7:46:56 AM

The fact that Mr. Satan actively sought out Goku and gave him that money out of the goodness of his heart, even when he had to persuade Goku to accept it, really does a lot to show the kind of guy he is.

Y'know. In case it needed clarifying after he risked life and limb to face Majin Buu knowing damn well what the creature can do to him, and wound up making friends. He's not entirely selfless, but he does mean well enough.

Also, any criticism of him being a coward misunderstands the nature of courage. Mr. Satan has very little he can actually contribute to these conflicts and he is scared shitless of the insanely-powered planet-smashing super-Cthulhu warriors he finds himself in the company of. But he has never refused to act when called upon.

Whether it's chucking a robot's severed head into Cell's vicinity or making an earnest plea to the people of Earth to lend their energy, Mr. Satan steps up. He'll quiver, he'll cry, he'll beg the skies for aid, but when there's something he can do to save the world, he always steps up. That's not a coward.

Now, he'll fake a stomach injury to get out of fighting someone at the Tenkaichi Budokai, but that's when there's nothing but money and ego on the line. It's not the same thing.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Ghilz Perpetually Confused from Yeeted at Relativistic Velocities Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Perpetually Confused
#31839: Sep 10th 2018 at 7:56:05 AM

I'm curious how would TFS handle Marron. Would she factor into Krillin's owned count? Because i expect a joke about him not expecting 18 being able to have children only to be proven wrong. *Ding*

He's already been told she can by Dr. Brief.

Ikedatakeshi Baby dango from singapore Since: Nov, 2015 Relationship Status: Singularity
Baby dango
#31840: Sep 10th 2018 at 7:56:14 AM

There is still the part where he's using Majin Buu to win tournaments, so saying he's a cheat isn't inaccurate.

Ghilz Perpetually Confused from Yeeted at Relativistic Velocities Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Perpetually Confused
#31841: Sep 10th 2018 at 7:57:19 AM

No one was questioning that part. People were questioning the Coward accusation, which isn't the same thing.

Ikedatakeshi Baby dango from singapore Since: Nov, 2015 Relationship Status: Singularity
Baby dango
#31842: Sep 10th 2018 at 8:12:54 AM

As far as I can tell, nobody was questioning whether Mr Satan was a coward. Everyone was pretty much just saying he isn't, and as Larkman pointed out, most people hate him for being a cheat, though they would sometimes call him a coward because anybody not acting like a badass will be ridiculed and mocked, just ask Krillin and Yamcha.

Edit: If anything, Krillin should be the one where people start criticizing the ones who call him a coward.

Edited by Ikedatakeshi on Sep 10th 2018 at 11:19:28 PM

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#31843: Sep 10th 2018 at 8:21:40 AM

The fact that Mr. Satan actively sought out Goku and gave him that money out of the goodness of his heart, even when he had to persuade Goku to accept it, really does a lot to show the kind of guy he is.

Y'know. In case it needed clarifying after he risked life and limb to face Majin Buu knowing damn well what the creature can do to him, and wound up making friends. He's not entirely selfless, but he does mean well enough.

Also, any criticism of him being a coward misunderstands the nature of courage. Mr. Satan has very little he can actually contribute to these conflicts and he is scared shitless of the insanely-powered planet-smashing super-Cthulhu warriors he finds himself in the company of. But he has never refused to act when called upon.

Whether it's chucking a robot's severed head into Cell's vicinity or making an earnest plea to the people of Earth to lend their energy, Mr. Satan steps up. He'll quiver, he'll cry, he'll beg the skies for aid, but when there's something he can do to save the world, he always steps up. That's not a coward.

Now, he'll fake a stomach injury to get out of fighting someone at the Tenkaichi Budokai, but that's when there's nothing but money and ego on the line. It's not the same thing.

This is very much true. I think Toriyama uses the human characters best when he can tie in their development into some Running Gag. Satan's is his so called cowardice, which gets him into nasty situations, but also leads to him performing tremendous acts of courage when it matters the most. How much of a role they have depends on how much he likes them, and what humour he can get out of them. Tien was a super serious guy, so not much funny there, and Yamcha's lone joke ended after the arc he was introduced in, so that's done with.

Krillin seemed to click with Toriyama considering how long he stayed in the forefront, even ignoring that he was constantly outclassed, but Satan...there's endless funny with him scrapping and clawing not to be found out as a fraud, but then he goes and does someone so legitimately kinda that you can't help but kinda root for him.

One Strip! One Strip!
Sigilbreaker26 Serial Procrastinator Since: Nov, 2017
Serial Procrastinator
#31844: Sep 10th 2018 at 8:28:21 AM

Tien wasn't always super serious so much as his previous characterisation (being an Arrogant Kung-Fu Guy) developed into someone who wasn't really much good for jokes. Basically, he was Piccolo before Piccolo was the Piccolo (and Mistare Fusion pointed out how Piccolo's relationship with Gohan had more legs than Tien's relationship with Chaotzu, a complete non-entity).

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#31845: Sep 10th 2018 at 11:14:08 AM

Y'know. In case it needed clarifying after he risked life and limb to face Majin Buu knowing damn well what the creature can do to him, and wound up making friends. He's not entirely selfless, but he does mean well enough.

Not to say this isn't true now, but if your claiming Mr. Satan was always like this, I disagree. He became a better person during the Buu saga, which is when he became bearable.

And even with all that said I still don't really like Mr. Satan. He's just not the type of character I'm a fan of, and I don't find the humor with him funny.

WillKeaton from Alberta, Canada Since: Jun, 2010
#31846: Sep 10th 2018 at 11:15:16 AM

I can tolerate Satan. What I can't tolerate are all the Satan worshipers.

MorningStar1337 The Encounter that ended the Dogma from 🤔 Since: Nov, 2012
The Encounter that ended the Dogma
#31847: Sep 10th 2018 at 11:18:30 AM

don't you mean...Satanists?tongue

Moth13 Since: Sep, 2010
#31848: Sep 10th 2018 at 11:19:38 AM

Satan Worshippers are the worst I agree. I just cannot stand how they are always cheering "Mis-ter! Sa-tan!". It just flows so awfully.

MorningStar1337 The Encounter that ended the Dogma from 🤔 Since: Nov, 2012
The Encounter that ended the Dogma
#31849: Sep 10th 2018 at 11:20:26 AM

I want to ask what Team Four Star will do after they release Part 3

Arha Since: Jan, 2010
#31850: Sep 10th 2018 at 11:21:17 AM

Get lunch?

Edited by Arha on Sep 10th 2018 at 1:23:31 PM


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