Nope. Metal Cooler, movie 6. Kaiser Neko points it out in his "making-of" video that he edited the video to make it look like Piccolo took out a bunch of Metal Coolers in one blast, while complaining that the movie made him look weak and said he should have fought Cooler instead of Goku.
In the actual movie a single Cooler beat the shit out of him.
Edited by Kamiccolo on Sep 3rd 2018 at 3:15:16 AM
In the actual movie, Piccolo never fights the Metal Coolers. They explode spontaneously around the same time he shows up. Also, it's not a fight. Also, your wording implied multiple instances. Also, they changed it so that this Piccolo was post-Kami, so he was the strongest person in that movie. Also, who gives a shit about Cooler 2?
"Actually it, happened here."
"Well yeah but who cares that it happened amirite?"
Edited by Kamiccolo on Sep 3rd 2018 at 2:26:38 AM
I mean, if Cooler 2 is the only example you've got for something like that, then I think that's a pretty weak accusation against them. That's hardly, like, editing a major fight or anything.
Edited by KarkatTheDalek on Sep 3rd 2018 at 5:27:01 AM
Oh God! Natural light!Considering your name is Kamiccolo, you sure seem to hate Piccolo a lot. Look, if Goku and Vegeta were able to beat a Metal Cooler, than post-Kami Piccolo would be able to waste them, considering he's significantly stronger than they are. Also, Dende was not Kami in that movie because Dende as Kami hadn't happened in the manga when that movie came out. There is no logical reason for Dende to be there.
Cooler 2 isn't canon, same as all the other movies. Nothing in any of the movies counts. The rest of your argument doesn't hold water, either. Piccolo is just as much of a victim of looking stupid and getting his ass kicked as he is in canon, if not more so, given the character and joke driven nature of an Abridged series.
Also, Piccolo plays the straight man in a lot of jokes, so he doesn't get dunked on as much as other characters. It's the nature of comedy.
Edited by PushoverMediaCritic on Sep 3rd 2018 at 2:37:44 AM
It's amazing that Kaiser can admit to what he's done and people still deny it.
As for selectively editing dialogue, that one is much more obvious. Instead of being an idiot and telling the group to wish him to Namek (when he's in way over his head), it's Kuririn who does it and Piccolo even calls him an idiot. Just in this episode they had Goku mention that Gohan was hiding his power to justify Piccolo thinking he was dead, whereas in the original Piccolo is being a moron (again) and Goku instead points out they can still sense his power.
The first example is a funny joke, the second doesn't seem to fuel anything but making Piccolo look less dumb. It doesn't even make sense for Gohan to hide his power in that instance, but then nothing they did with Gohan this episode made sense.
Edited by Saiga on Sep 3rd 2018 at 7:52:59 PM
Nothing TFS does is canon.
Non-canon to DBZA, you nerd.
Why, because you say so? Yeah no. Just admit you were wrong.
Because Teamfourstar said so. They've made very clear that the movies are non-canon.
Nope, TFS is pretty much a non-stop Piccolo wanking session. Oh sure, he's the butt of a few jokes, mostly in season 1, but overall he's made to look much better than all the other characters.
Bullshit. 80% of Nail and Kami interactions are some form of dunking on Piccolo.
For example, on top of pushing the tired "Piccolo is a good dad" meme, they make Krillin the butt of the joke when they have him wish Piccolo to Namek over his objections. In the main series, Piccolo is the one who told Krillin to do it, because he thought training for 1 week made him stronger than Freeza.
Again, that is one instance. One. Compare to the times when Piccolo is made fun of for being a loner. Also, it's a different take on the series. Characters have different personalities. It's not meant to be the same show, it's meant to be a parody of it. Yeah, Piccolo's cooler and smarter, boo-hoo, he's also a lot lonelier and more boring. Krillin's lamer. Bulma's smarter. Goku's stupider. Gohan's smarter. Vegeta's ego is even bigger. Trunks is more awkward. Tenshinhan is ballsier. Cell is a lot rapey-er.
The characters have different personalities because this is a different show than the original. Complaining that one character is different is stupid because they're all different.
Edited by PushoverMediaCritic on Sep 3rd 2018 at 2:55:30 AM
Except, he agreed that they should let the androids be created because he wanted to fight them (so did Ten actually). Except he drew Cell right to #17. Except he taught Cell he could regenerate. Except he let both Gero and Cell escape because he stopped to brag. Either they edited these instances out or they had their characters ignore them for the sake of more Piccolo wank. I don't even see how this serves the joke, because now the joke has no meaning. It would be funnier, and more accurate, if Yamcha was the sole person able to say "I have done literally nothing wrong."
Edited by Kamiccolo on Sep 3rd 2018 at 3:07:12 AM
No he didn't. There's been 1 instance each of the things Kamiccolo is complaining about, which doesn't gel with their complaints that it's a repeating and constant thing.
Piccolo still comes off as dumb for assuming that Gohan is dead, it's just that the original way the scene is written is really stupid and bad. Piccolo looks dumb all throughout that whole scene because Goku is constantly surprising him with the details of his big plan. Dumber than in canon because Goku's plan is more elaborate here.
There's one instance of the fight winning and multiple instances of dialogue changes, I pointed out two off the top of my head. So you're wrong there. Also, this still has nothing to do with canon.
I wouldn't say the original scene is dumb, it's a much shorter moment and Piccolo overreacts briefly. Given the way he's usually portrayed, that's fine, he's actually very volatile for his reputation as The Stoic.
Whereas, the TFS version... hooooo boy, that makes no fucking sense. Again, why would he hide his power completely? That doesn't serve a purpose, except to feed into his bullshit characterization of being a complete coward who would rather do nothing than help.
Edited by Saiga on Sep 3rd 2018 at 8:10:43 PM
To lull Cell into a false sense of security. Seemed obvious to me.
No, you still said "fights". Plural. There was one, which was removed, not changed. Also, your complaint as regards to the movie is one of an event, not characterization. If the event is non-canon (and it is, Word of God says so), than you don't have a leg to stand on.
Piccolo's whole arc in this show is about his social awkwardness, that's why he gets people in his head. You can't separate it from his character because it is the main thing they added. Piccolo isn't even slightly evil at this point in the series in canon. They can't possibly portray him as "more moral".
The Bulma plan was 3 years ago, in regards to the Cell events, Piccolo and Tenshinhan did nothing wrong. All of those things he did wrong are only in hindsight, not obviously wrong things in the moment, like with Krillin, Vegeta, Trunks, and Goku.
More boring in-universe. He bores everyone to tears in his off-time because he doesn't interact with others.
Edited by PushoverMediaCritic on Sep 3rd 2018 at 3:23:30 AM
There is nothing to indicate Gohan is doing that. That also doesn't fit TFS' own argument that Gohan wasn't trying.
While I agree that it was incorrect to say fights, that's just hyberbole. It's equally incorrect to say that there were none, or to continue to insist the outcome wasn't changed when we're using Word of God.
Nnnnnno the Android thing was DEFINITELY wrong at the moment. It doesn't even need Cell to be the wrong thing, if the Androids were what Trunks actually said (super strong AND evil, unlike the pairs of 19/20 and 17/18 who each only check one box) they'd have all died. So it's only in hindsight that what Piccolo did isn't a death sentence.
The thing with Dragonball characters (in the original canon) is that it's difficult to tell when their stupidity is because they're supposed to be dumb and when it's just plot-induced-stupidity. (or just plain nonsensical stupidity. I would find it questionable for literally any of the Z fighters to forget to sense power, not just Piccolo, and it's just one of those "Tien forgets that King Piccolo was a thing and has to be reminded" moments.)
If we count the latter as the former they're *all* idiots both in DBZA canon and original canon for not stopping Dr. Gero when Trunks gave them that information. There's no coming back from that; that's something they all agree on and it causes an entire arc's worth of stress. But the arc literally can't take place without that.
When it comes to wishing Piccolo to Namek, in the original (IIRC) no one really comments on how monumentally dumb it is to send Piccolo into the fight when the Earth's dragonballs depend on him and he should be nowhere near useful in combat. So the change is that a character calls that out on being dumb. Out of the three who could make that mistake - Gohan, Krillin, or Piccolo, Piccolo actually isn't viable for it because he's not present and can't go ahead and make the wish without thinking. That leaves Gohan and Krillin - and Krillin is the Butt-Monkey.
The change for comedy is sidestepping a plot hole, plot-induced-stupidity moment by making it a character-based stupidity moment.
Honestly when looking back at the series Piccolo's reputation from intelligence largely seems to come from A. keeping his mouth shut a lot of the time, B. playing the straight man to people like Goku and Vegeta, C. the Buu arc, where he plays the straight man to Gotenks (and anyone would look smart next to him) and has a few genuinely inspired feats of intelligence.
Just saying, about the Android thing, it's difficult to say whether that was a bad or good idea in retrospect, largely because Piccolo has no way of estimating their power level since they can't be measured.
However, I do want to say this: in a parody series, some characters are going to come off looking worse than in the original, and some characters are going to end up looking better. That's just par for the course.
Edited by Sigilbreaker26 on Sep 3rd 2018 at 11:02:06 AM
"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"I mean, they're definitely meant to be idiots for going along with the Androids plan. It's one of the things the other characters are most vocal about calling them out on. The fact that Piccolo can't sense their power doesn't justify him being riskier with them, that'd be the opposite.
I can accept Piccolo being wished to Namek being a plot necessity, but Kaio gives them plenty of warning and Piccolo immediately realizes how in over his head he is when he arrives, so I think that's deliberate.
Piccolo's supposed intelligence comes largely from fanon. Dude is always mouthing off with dumb shit, even in the Boo arc where Gohan has to correct him on multiple points (including another case of him not sensing someone's ki) and most of his plans backfire. Like, the smartest thing he does is stall Boo for adding ROSAT time, but shortly after that Gohan has to correct him on how the ROSAT works.
I feel like the line about Boo praising his intelligence must be where most of it comes from, but having checked different translations of the original he doesn't appear to actually do that! He says that Piccolo has a sober mind, which offsets Gotenks' immaturity, as they did with their straight man routine. Gohan mentions that Boo's decision not to fuck around with his time limit is the effect of Piccolo, so that isn't really high praise of his intelligence.
Edited by Saiga on Sep 3rd 2018 at 9:06:32 PM
"I mean, they're definitely meant to be idiots for going along with the Androids plan. It's one of the things the other characters are most vocal about calling them out on."
It's also inconsistent since for the rest of the arc, even early on when they stomped 19 and 20 easily, they're all panicking (except for Vegeta) about more androids.
The fight against the Androids was a gamble, to be sure, but the alternative was potentially letting them run rampant and attract Cell's attention the traditional way. Also; it wasn't like he picked a fight with them. They said that they were intent on forcing Goku's location out of him when they found him at Roshi's house. He was just making the best of a bad situation, and had 17 not suddenly revealed he could create Ki shields, it would have likely worked and prevented Perfect Cell from ever being a thing. (and what's even the alternative? Lie about where Goku was? Tell them where he is and let them kill him?)
The smartest thing he does against Buu is blow up the door connecting the ROSAT to the real world, since that nearly ends the crisis in one go with absolutely no resources on hand and Buu only got out of it by spontaneously developing an ability to rip through dimensions.
His plans backfire, sure, but they don't tend to backfire because of his lack of intelligence so much as unforeseen factors.
Fanon may exaggerate Piccolo's intelligence but you are definitely downplaying it.
Edited by Sigilbreaker26 on Sep 3rd 2018 at 11:22:31 AM
"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"It's not inconsistent. Goku is out sick, Ten realizes he was outclassed by the first batch, Piccolo explicitly changes his mind, but he's never running around scared. That only accurately describes Trunks and Kuririn.
I wasn't talking about the fight at Kame house. That was hard to avoid, though he still didn't have any kind of plan for Cell showing up despite how obvious a beacon he would be. Him being shocked by Cell's arrival isn't smart at all.
Also, we have no way of knowing whether his trick would have killed 17 if not for the shield. That's too big an assumption to then give him credit over it. As for lying, I mean, why not? Worst case scenario he ends up fighting them, which is what he elected to do anyway. He could have even tried bargaining with them like he did with Boo, or appeal to them doing this for a game.
I'm not downplaying it. Taking the obvious solution just isn't that smart, which is what he's doing with the ROSAT door. Yeah, from everything he knew it'd work, but it's still a very simple plan. That's not a knock on him at all, I'm just not going to give him credit for basic ideas. The idea that there is no way out of the ROSAT without the exit had already been brought up, even if it wasn't super obvious. I think the way he stalled Boo was smarter than that.
I'd say that his plan of sacrificing humanity to buy time is definitely lacking intelligence. They passed planet busting years ago, and just Super Saiyan 1 Gotenks could lap the entire world eight times in 30 minutes. But Piccolo came to the conclusion that he'd get days out of that stunt.
So I'm not dumping on him outside his moments of actual stupidity, I'm just not going to say he's smart for doing something basic. The most important thing, is that I don't believe there was an intent to portray him as intelligent, because all we've got is a debateable translation that runs contrary to his consistent behaviour and we have Toriyama making it clear when he wants us to see a character as being intelligent - even when he doesn't always make it work.
If Piccolo is truly meant to be above average intelligence within the group, I have no idea why Toriyama wrote him praising other people's intelligence on multiple occasions, or being corrected by other characters frequently.
Edited by Saiga on Sep 3rd 2018 at 9:56:03 PM
"I wasn't talking about the fight at Kame house. That was hard to avoid, though he still didn't have any kind of plan for Cell showing up despite how obvious a beacon he would be. Him being shocked by Cell's arrival isn't smart at all.
Also, we have no way of knowing whether his trick would have killed 17 if not for the shield. That's too big an assumption to then give him credit over it. As for lying, I mean, why not? Worst case scenario he ends up fighting them, which is what he elected to do anyway. He could have even tried bargaining with them like he did with Boo, or appeal to them doing this for a game."
Piccolo would have had to fight them at full power in any event just to buy time for guys to finish in the ROSAT, which is his original intention (unless you're seriously thinking that he could even stall against any of them without using full power or close enough to it that Cell would detect it). He only goes for the kill against 17 when he realises that they're not going to gank him and he has the opportunity to snipe one of Cell's components. I'm guessing that he would have been able to kill 17 based on 17's comment afterwards (the scan I'm reading says "so close" from 17, implying it might have killed or seriously damaged him), but even if he didn't it was the best move he could have taken, and nothing would have changed if he'd tried to stall. Any attempt to try and shoot the breeze might have worked, as could lying, but even if they took the bait there's no guarantee that Cell won't just figure out where they are from the trail of destruction that they're leaving. Any move Piccolo takes at this point is a huge gamble and he goes for the one that has the biggest rewards.
You can argue against this being an intelligence feat but it's not possible to argue it as being a moment of stupidity.
"I'm not downplaying it. Taking the obvious solution just isn't that smart, which is what he's doing with the ROSAT door. Yeah, from everything he knew it'd work, but it's still a very simple plan. That's not a knock on him at all, I'm just not going to give him credit for basic ideas. The idea that there is no way out of the ROSAT without the exit had already been brought up, even if it wasn't super obvious. I think the way he stalled Boo was smarter than that."
Luring Buu into another dimension so he can trap him there is one of the smartest plans literally anyone comes up with in Dragonball (so of course it fails). Simple doesn't mean dumb. Slicing the Gordian Knot is simple, teleporting Cell to King Kai's planet is simple but it's also Goku's best intelligence feat and you don't see me downplaying that. Using the ROSAT like that is a bit of lateral thinking that nearly ends the crisis right then and there.
"I'd say that his plan of sacrificing humanity to buy time is definitely lacking intelligence. They passed planet busting years ago, and just Super Saiyan 1 Gotenks could lap the entire world eight times in 30 minutes. But Piccolo came to the conclusion that he'd get days out of that stunt."
In fairness, he probably thought Buu would take his time, since he's shown a lot of sadistic behaviour before and so has basically every other villain they've faced for the previous 3 arcs.
"So I'm not dumping on him outside his moments of actual stupidity, I'm just not going to say he's smart for doing something basic. The most important thing, is that I don't believe there was an intent to portray him as intelligent, because all we've got is a debateable translation that runs contrary to his consistent behaviour and we have Toriyama making it clear when he wants us to see a character as being intelligent - even when he doesn't always make it work."
Consistent behaviour is precisely what we're arguing about here since there are character inconsistencies all over the place. That translation isn't even calling him a dumbass, it's just calling him a sober mind - there's a massive difference between something just not saying someone's intelligent and something specifically saying someone's dumb and trying to stretch the former into the latter is laughable.
"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"

Season 1 was a different (and better) beast.
Piccolo: "Can't you see he has to fight this battle on his own? He's fighting for the honor of his fallen comrade."
Tenshinhan: "HELP ME! FOR THE LOVE OF GOD PLEASE HELP ME!"
Piccolo (smiles) "Like a hero."
Edited by Kamiccolo on Sep 3rd 2018 at 2:12:48 AM