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slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#30701: Jun 30th 2018 at 10:02:53 PM

Vegeta’s a pretty shit dad.

For most of Trunks life he pretty much ignored him.

Also Piccolo did kidnap & abuse Gohan after orphaning him, why does everyone forget this?

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Arha Since: Jan, 2010
#30702: Jun 30th 2018 at 10:15:53 PM

Never having watched the original makes her opinion less valuable.

randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#30703: Jun 30th 2018 at 10:20:37 PM

Implying the opinion of anyone has any value...

Edited by randomness4 on Jun 30th 2018 at 10:20:25 AM

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
Ikedatakeshi Baby dango from singapore Since: Nov, 2015 Relationship Status: Singularity
Baby dango
#30704: Jun 30th 2018 at 10:23:03 PM

That's the "my best friend is black" type of argument.

randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#30705: Jun 30th 2018 at 10:23:33 PM

Implying it was an argument?

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#30706: Jun 30th 2018 at 10:24:26 PM

[up][up]Whose argument are you talking about?

Ikedatakeshi Baby dango from singapore Since: Nov, 2015 Relationship Status: Singularity
Baby dango
#30707: Jun 30th 2018 at 10:33:04 PM

Tobias's. Bringing up your friend that is okay with something other people aren't okay with to somehow justify it.

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#30708: Jun 30th 2018 at 10:37:10 PM

Yeah I can see why someone who hasn't seen the original would like that stuff more.

Anyway, those characters were alive well before Schemmel and Sabat entered the scene. They bring one version of the characters to life and can easily make them less accurate to the source - like the whole 'hope of the universe' speech that Goku gives.

Vegeta isn't a better father than Goku. He certainly puts in more effort, but he also needs to put in more effort just to be 'decent'. It's nice that he pushes himself to do things that he doesn't want to for their sake, but it's also an issue that he doesn't want to do those things in the first place.

Piccolo doesn't have any fatherly qualities. He's shown clearly being very bad at dealing with Gohan - even if you excuse the abuse with "well he's evil back then" he also plain doesn't know how to get Gohan to understand him, so it's not just a matter of him being evil. And it's established in both time skips after that (Freeza to Trunks and Cell to Boo) that he apparently doesn't see Gohan in the peace time, despite having nothing better to do.

At least we know that when Goku was alive for long stretches of time he was actually around his family.

randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#30709: Jun 30th 2018 at 10:41:24 PM

Well before Super...

Preemptive response...:Super's bad.

Edited by randomness4 on Jun 30th 2018 at 10:41:32 AM

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#30710: Jun 30th 2018 at 10:43:01 PM

The fact he actually has to force himself to care is actually pretty bad.

He should enjoy being with his family because a father & husband should enjoy being with their family not cause they have too.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#30711: Jun 30th 2018 at 10:44:39 PM

I actually like that Super shows characters spending down time together, because it was pretty weird how people didn't seem to see each other unless they had a reason to. The relationship really seemed to be like those kind of friends or acquaintances you have that you'll just randomly think 'I wonder what they're up to, we should catch up' after a long period of not thinking about them.

randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#30712: Jun 30th 2018 at 10:45:44 PM

That's just End of Z though.

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#30713: Jun 30th 2018 at 10:47:03 PM

Like how in End of Z Bluma remarks she hasn’t seen Goku for 5 years, or Tien saying this will be the last they see of him for no reason that one time, or the fact no one knew Goku had a kid till he actually brought the kid over on his first visit in years.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#30714: Jun 30th 2018 at 10:55:45 PM

[up][up] Not just then. After the 23rd Budokai, there's a 5 year period where nobody even knows Goku has a kid until they decide to have a get together at Roshi's place. And from the dialogue we can tell the other characters haven't seen each other in a while either - Kuririn asks Bulma about Yamcha, Bulma asks about Lunch, and Roshi/Kuririn mention it's been a while since seeing Bulma.

Bulma needs to fix Raditz' scouter for them to find Tenshinhan since they have no way of contacting him.

There's a similar thing when the characters meet up in response to Freeza's arrival on Earth. They all talk about not having seen each other in a while.

Same thing with the 25th Budokai, as Piccolo hadn't seen the grown up Gohan. In this case, kid Trunks is familiar with Gohan, and Gohan was aware of why Kuririn grew his hair out, so Gohan is at least a little better at keeping in contact with people.

Moth13 Since: Sep, 2010
#30715: Jun 30th 2018 at 10:59:24 PM

Also Piccolo did kidnap & abuse Gohan after orphaning him, why does everyone forget this?

Because he was evil at the time. Evil characters being shitty is expected. Good characters (like Goku) being shitty goes against the grain and is treated harsher as a result.

Tobias's. Bringing up your friend that is okay with something other people aren't okay with to somehow justify it.

Justify it? It's a new scene in an anime parody and Tobias is bringing up an anecdote. Chill.

randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#30716: Jun 30th 2018 at 11:00:44 PM

[up][up]I really like that about DBZ...

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#30717: Jun 30th 2018 at 11:02:38 PM

I don't think "Piccolo was evil" fully explains it, because I've seen people downplay both how evil Piccolo was, and his actual intentions for Gohan.

But the point remains that even after he turns over a new leaf, Gohan never views Piccolo as a father-figure, and Piccolo doesn't seem to view himself in that role either, nor does he act like it for the most part.

Edited by LSBK on Jun 30th 2018 at 1:02:58 PM

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#30718: Jun 30th 2018 at 11:02:49 PM

[up][up][up] Yeah, but that's a double standard.

Like I won't say that Piccolo should be treated as though he would still abuse children, but it'd be completely wrong to treat him less harshly because he was evil.

Even though he changed, it doesn't change that that's basically the only interaction we see him have with children until much later when he deals with Gotenks.

Edited by Saiga on Jul 1st 2018 at 4:02:37 AM

Ikedatakeshi Baby dango from singapore Since: Nov, 2015 Relationship Status: Singularity
Baby dango
#30719: Jun 30th 2018 at 11:06:24 PM

[up][up][up][up] "Back up your argument" then. That was the term I use whenever I get into argument with a racist, and I mix up the two when I tried to use it as a metaphor.

Edited by Ikedatakeshi on Jul 1st 2018 at 2:06:39 AM

Moth13 Since: Sep, 2010
#30720: Jun 30th 2018 at 11:07:09 PM

But the point remains that even after he turns over a new leaf, Gohan never views Piccolo as a father-figure, and Piccolo doesn't seem to view himself in that role either, nor does he act like it for the most part.

This is one of those things where what makes a father-figure is ultimately subjective and depends on the person.

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#30721: Jun 30th 2018 at 11:08:54 PM

I mean, is it? Because I think both that Gohan and Piccolo don't spend much time together, neither really seems bothered by it, and he never acts in a traditionally parental role, are disputable.

Gohan respects and admires Piccolo, and Piccolo is very fond of him for their time together. That does not translate to them having a father-son relationship, nor does it need to. And this is independent of thoughts on Goku's parenting skills, or lack thereof.

Edited by LSBK on Jun 30th 2018 at 1:09:39 PM

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#30722: Jun 30th 2018 at 11:13:05 PM

[up][up] Yeah but I think it depends on the person in the relationship more than anything else.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#30723: Jun 30th 2018 at 11:15:16 PM

[up][up][up][up]I think a conversation about how an internet series handled a dramatic scene REALLY shouldn't be discussed using the same strategies as a conversation with a real life racist, and I think if you are using the same strategies for both, you need to prioritize better.

Edited by PushoverMediaCritic on Jun 30th 2018 at 11:15:35 AM

Ikedatakeshi Baby dango from singapore Since: Nov, 2015 Relationship Status: Singularity
Baby dango
#30724: Jun 30th 2018 at 11:18:05 PM

It's a metaphor. If I offended anyone by using it, then I apologize of my lack of sense.

Darthwyn leader of Inherit from The void Since: Feb, 2016 Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
leader of Inherit
#30725: Jun 30th 2018 at 11:24:52 PM

It is a metaphor that doesn't make make much logical sense to even use.

"Shall I use you, or make you mine... I'm not so sure what I'll do." - Dorthy

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