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Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#30676: Jun 30th 2018 at 3:27:30 PM

The way TFS handled it was really crappy, especially by making Goku involved in his death. Gero's motivations made way more sense without that reveal - you don't need to question 'wait, why is he so evil?' when he works for the fucking Red Ribbon Army, a private military that declared war on the world.

That kind of backstory would make sense if it was what made him the bitter dick who joined the RRA, but as someone already part of it it's trivial.

Goku destroyed the RRA, ruining Gero's life goal of world domination. For a guy willing to work with the RRA in the first place, that is a way more logical reason to hate Goku.

'I love you, dad. Time to go gun down some innocent people in the name of world domination' blegh

16 being based off Gero's son is a neat bit of trivia (as is 19 being based off a doll). That being the reason behind is personality and power? Unnessecary Voodoo Shark. That being Gero's motivation for revenge? Utterly asinine.

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#30677: Jun 30th 2018 at 3:35:58 PM

I liked them using Gero's relationship with his son in the series.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#30678: Jun 30th 2018 at 3:38:44 PM

What bad guys can take things personally too when you kill their brethren. tongue

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#30679: Jun 30th 2018 at 3:42:13 PM

Of course they can, but it's just superflous to everything else in this situation and poorly placed.

It comes up way too late to actually matter, for starters.

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#30680: Jun 30th 2018 at 4:41:22 PM

Even Evil Has Loved Ones can be used well, but I'm not sure a supposedly kind and gentle hearted person being in the Red Ribbon Army works.

Was 16's personality even supposed to be based off of Gero's son's? I thought the retcon was that Gero intentionally made 16 gentle because he didn't want him to fight (which makes no sense) and lose him again.

randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#30681: Jun 30th 2018 at 4:58:32 PM

Not personality...just appearance.

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#30682: Jun 30th 2018 at 5:28:30 PM

[up][up] Yeah, from Toriyama's interview Gero's son was just the model for 16, and the gentle personality and huge power were both deliberate additions by Gero. Which as you said makes no sense (and contradicts the actual explanations both had).

Moth13 Since: Sep, 2010
#30683: Jun 30th 2018 at 6:49:53 PM

I thought adding in the 16 backstory worked really well.

Ikedatakeshi Baby dango from singapore Since: Nov, 2015 Relationship Status: Singularity
Baby dango
#30684: Jun 30th 2018 at 6:58:11 PM

I don't. It's a Fix Fic that shows how despite all the claims that they are not better than the actual DBZ, they still think they are improving it, like the Piccolo is a better dad thing.

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#30685: Jun 30th 2018 at 7:18:59 PM

Nothing's perfect so I don't think I'll begrudge attempts to fill legitimate plot holes, even if given the nature of the series it might just be better to make fun of them. But little tidbits like Gero's son aren't really fixing anything, I don't think. That's why I said I can see why people would be either for or against it, and my main issue is just that it didn't look nice.

randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#30686: Jun 30th 2018 at 8:51:52 PM

[up][up]You mean the joke about Piccoro being a better dad...and you not actually knowing whether they think that's an improvement?

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#30687: Jun 30th 2018 at 8:53:42 PM

I think they did somewhat jokingly believe it, but they might regret pushing it so hard, since they've said they regret claiming Goku was a bad dad (which is fucking isn't. It takes him dying to not be there for his family).

One Strip! One Strip!
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#30688: Jun 30th 2018 at 8:56:05 PM

I think some of them believe it, and some of them don't.

randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#30689: Jun 30th 2018 at 8:58:25 PM

Isn't that why they've been downplaying it...?

On Karrot's part anyway.

Edited by randomness4 on Jun 30th 2018 at 8:58:07 AM

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
Ikedatakeshi Baby dango from singapore Since: Nov, 2015 Relationship Status: Singularity
Baby dango
#30690: Jun 30th 2018 at 9:19:48 PM

Unless I'm remembering it wrongly, they only started downplaying it after some people pointed it out.

wanderlustwarrior Role Model from Where Gods Belong Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
Role Model
#30691: Jun 30th 2018 at 9:24:56 PM

They exaggerated it, but Goku is canonically one of the worst dads in the series. He's not outright malicious, he just cares more about training and fighting than he does about his family.

I wish I recorded it, since I can't find it anymore, but at a convention panel I attended last year, Schemmel and Sabat agreed that Vegeta's the better father and lover, Goku isn't a particularly good dad, and Piccolo would be the best.

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#30692: Jun 30th 2018 at 9:27:01 PM

Yes, you brought that up. I recall asking why you think their opinions on it matters anymore than any other fans does. Toriyama himself considers Goku a shitty father; that doesn't mean everyone has to agree with his assessment of that (or other things he's written).

Edited by LSBK on Jun 30th 2018 at 11:27:38 AM

randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#30693: Jun 30th 2018 at 9:33:38 PM

Of the 5 dads...Kakarrot is the worst or the 2nd worst.

Depending on the mood.

Piccoro doesn't count for obvious reasons that people will continue to ignore.

Edited by randomness4 on Jun 30th 2018 at 9:41:04 AM

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
Ikedatakeshi Baby dango from singapore Since: Nov, 2015 Relationship Status: Singularity
Baby dango
#30694: Jun 30th 2018 at 9:35:01 PM

Last time I checked Piccolo abused Gohan throughout his training, sacrificing his life for Gohan which Goku also did and the only thing that he did better than Goku was the Cell thing, which is highly debatable. Vegeta on the other hand has repeatedly treated future Trunks like shit, only have more time with his family because he is alive and and abandoned them like Goku did once he could train with Whis.

Mr Satan, Krillin and Gohan are all better fathers if you really want to make Goku look bad.

Edited by Ikedatakeshi on Jul 1st 2018 at 12:37:25 AM

randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#30695: Jun 30th 2018 at 9:40:57 PM

Someone did not ignore those obvious reasons...wut?

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
wanderlustwarrior Role Model from Where Gods Belong Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
Role Model
#30696: Jun 30th 2018 at 9:41:38 PM

[up][up][up][up]They're the people who bring life to the character. And in Toriyama's case, the one who wrote him. They're more than fans.

Anyway, this could be interesting - rank the fathers/father figures in the Dragon Ball universe. Options include:

  • Goku
  • Vegeta
  • Piccolo or King Piccolo
  • Bardock
  • King Cold
  • Krillin
  • Gohan
  • Mark "Hercule" Satan
  • Ox King
  • Dr. Briefs

Edited by wanderlustwarrior on Jun 30th 2018 at 11:44:31 AM

randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#30697: Jun 30th 2018 at 9:45:31 PM

They're not more than fans...they just voice the characters.

They can be just as biased if not more...

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#30698: Jun 30th 2018 at 9:46:52 PM

[up][up]Death of the Author is a thing (not a thing I fully buy into, but it certainly has its place).

As for the voice actors, their opinions, while interesting are just that: their opinions. They have no more meaning than mine or yours.

Edited by LSBK on Jun 30th 2018 at 11:49:56 AM

Ikedatakeshi Baby dango from singapore Since: Nov, 2015 Relationship Status: Singularity
Baby dango
#30699: Jun 30th 2018 at 9:47:56 PM

[up][up][up] Might as well add Grand Priest if you're adding King Cold.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#30700: Jun 30th 2018 at 9:49:38 PM

I loved the 16 video. I feel like it's presented really well. I have a friend that I watch the show with's never seen the original, and she literally cried when Goku started charging up his Kamehameha in the distance and she realized what had happened to Gero's son.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.

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