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slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#30201: Mar 17th 2018 at 12:21:46 PM

Honestly Cell saying he can blow up a solar system just sounds like him talking up his own ass & no one is in any mood to correct him cause whether or not he can destroy a solar system is irrelevant to the more closer threat of point blank obliteration.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Ghilz Perpetually Confused from Yeeted at Relativistic Velocities Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Perpetually Confused
#30202: Mar 17th 2018 at 12:24:14 PM

Does anyone seriously think in those terms?

How do you define speed? Coz where I'm from, Speed is distance over time. But I suppose you define speed as something else.

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#30203: Mar 17th 2018 at 12:26:10 PM

[up]See, this is basically what I mean. I know this may sound rude, but the Guldo argument often comes of as an attempted "got'cha!" moments or something, well, assholes, say to try and seem smart.

While trying to careful with my phrasing, your post there is kind of indicative of the tone I mean.

edited 17th Mar '18 12:31:27 PM by LSBK

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
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#30204: Mar 17th 2018 at 12:30:17 PM

[up] This. Freezing time is a distinctly separate power from super-speed. You wouldn't consider the amount of metal Magneto can levitate to be representative of his physical strength.

edited 17th Mar '18 12:30:26 PM by TobiasDrake

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Ghilz Perpetually Confused from Yeeted at Relativistic Velocities Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Perpetually Confused
#30205: Mar 17th 2018 at 12:33:36 PM

You wouldn't consider the amount of metal Magneto can levitate to be representative of his physical strength.

Of course not, He's not physically lifting the thing. So it's not physical strength.

But the argument was speed. Not "Unaided travel speed" or some qualifier.

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#30206: Mar 17th 2018 at 12:37:17 PM

Yeah, but that's clearly not what the characters mean, and it's not what most people think of when they think of speed.

If I'm understanding your argument correctly, it's that "Because speed is measured as distance over time, and Guldo can stop time, any distance he travels happens instantly and thus he's the fastest in the Universe", is not something most people would seriously consider, for obvious reasons.

It has not semantic or practical meaning, it's only true in the most technical sense.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
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#30207: Mar 17th 2018 at 12:39:21 PM

Freezing time only counts as a measure if speed if you're measuring how fast the person can move while within the time freeze. By definition, a person who freezes time is not, himself, frozen in time. Guldo is capable of doing things in his time freeze.

If Guldo freezes time for ten seconds and then sprints, then his speed is measured by how far he can move through that frozen time versus the ten seconds that passed exclusively for him.

It only qualifies as infinite speed if you pointedly ignore the fact that he is still progressing through time even as time itself is frozen around him.

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#30208: Mar 17th 2018 at 12:44:16 PM

Cell saying he could destroy the solar system is a similar statement as Kafla saying she could destroy an entire universe in one shot. Both are unproven, but there's no reason to include the line except to establish strength, Cell that he's moved beyond mere planetary objects and Kafla that she is in the realm of God of Destruction.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#30209: Mar 17th 2018 at 12:48:07 PM

Or it could just be bluster.

I mean both characters are very arrogant & drunk on their own power so their not exactly a credible source on word alone.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
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#30210: Mar 17th 2018 at 12:54:11 PM

I mean, just based on Power Levelling, I believe them. Super Perfect Cell is, what, 40 times stronger than Freeza? 50 times? Not to mention that Freeza's final form is 226 times stronger than his first form or that Freeza's first form is 30 times stronger than Vegeta was when he claimed he could destroy the planet. You really think a difference of 339,000 times isn't enough to go from planet to solar system?

And though Kafla can't lay a finger on UIO Goku, his strength is in speed, and his attacks do barely any damage to her at first, the same attacks that did more to Jiren than the Spirit Bomb did.

edited 17th Mar '18 1:05:47 PM by PushoverMediaCritic

Sigilbreaker26 Serial Procrastinator Since: Nov, 2017
Serial Procrastinator
#30211: Mar 17th 2018 at 1:05:55 PM

The reason I think that Cell was bluffing and that Vegeta wasn't is such - moving up to blowing up a planet from destroying a moon is significantly less than moving up to Solar system buster. Because you have giant tracts of empty void in between all those planets. So it's not just say, ten times stronger, because that's only the mass you're blowing up. You also need to have the blast cover that much space while maintaining the same intensity. Not to mention the Earth is moving around and with a blast pointed one direction wouldn't you miss Mercury, Venus, and the Sun? It's just a matter of logistics. I totally believe Cell could destroy eight planets and a star if they were all lined up neatly but they're not.

On the other hand, Roshi was able to blow up the moon with his MAX Kamehameha. So Vegeta, coming several arcs after him, being about 180 times stronger being able to blow up the planet with the Galick Gun, makes sense to me. The Earth only weighs 81 times more than the moon.

edited 17th Mar '18 1:07:03 PM by Sigilbreaker26

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#30212: Mar 17th 2018 at 1:13:45 PM

I feel like if your problem with Super Perfect Cell's claim is the physics of it, you've chosen a very arbitrary place to draw a line in the sand and go, "Nah, bro. Compared to the rest of Dragon Ball, this just isn't very realistic at all."

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PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
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#30213: Mar 17th 2018 at 1:17:15 PM

I edited this in above you, but Vegeta was about 30 times weaker than Freeza's first form, which is 226 times weaker than Freeza's final form, which can be estimated to be about 50 times weaker than Super Perfect Cell. That's a 339,000 times over difference. The solar system is about 2,865,875 times larger than the Earth, but most of that, like you said, is empty space. In order to destroy a solar system, you'd only need to destroy all the objects within the solar system, since the empty space between them wouldn't put up any resistance.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#30214: Mar 17th 2018 at 1:20:09 PM

Which is why I doubt any of those characters can generate a wide enough blast that spreads light years with the required power to annihilate a celestial object whether its a fucking solar system or a Goddamn universe.

Its fucking ridiculous. Hell Beerus requires Whis to make FTL travel.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
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#30215: Mar 17th 2018 at 1:23:23 PM

Why not? I can't imagine it takes that much more energy to just make the blast bigger, why couldn't they just make a blast the size of a galaxy with a resultant explosion big enough to destroy the whole universe? Toppo's Hakai warped the very fabric of reality of an infinite void.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
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#30216: Mar 17th 2018 at 1:32:42 PM

I feel like an old martial artist who lives alone on an island with a turtle being able to blow up the goddamn moon is pretty ridiculous.

Like. I don't know what to tell you other than "Welcome to Dragon Ball." Like I said, if you're totally fine with Frieza blowing up Namek but think Cell destroying the Solar System is a completely unrealistic proposal, you've chosen a very arbitrary place to go, "No, all that other stuff is entirely reasonable and well within the laws of physics, but this just doesn't sound right."

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PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
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#30217: Mar 17th 2018 at 1:32:52 PM

As the Explosions in Space Trope page says:

In reality, space has no air to transfer the explosive energy to. Thus, explosions would have an initial brilliant flash, and the resulting spherical fireball and debris would travel away from the point of explosion far too fast for the eye to see. Do note that without any atmosphere or gravity to act on the debris, it will continue on at full speed until it hits something, meaning such an explosion could actually be more dangerous than it would have been in an atmosphere.

Basically, space has no resistance, like air, so a ki explosion left unchecked would just keep expanding infinitely until it hits something. If you're Beerus and you can destroy any individual thing in the known universe, destroying the whole universe would be an easy matter of just making a strong enough explosion and just letting it go until it destroys everything.

edited 17th Mar '18 1:33:16 PM by PushoverMediaCritic

Eriorguez Since: Jun, 2009
#30218: Mar 17th 2018 at 1:46:37 PM

Just in case, if Cell had blown up the Sun, that'd account for 98% of the solar system, and the rest would be thrown out whack.

Fedetropes Call me Blast, not Fedetropes from Doomed universe Since: Dec, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Call me Blast, not Fedetropes
#30219: Mar 17th 2018 at 2:12:22 PM

I remember someone doing an article about why cell was actually capable of blowing the solar system.

I'm gonna search for it.

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#30220: Mar 17th 2018 at 2:16:50 PM

http://vsbattles.wikia.com/wiki/User_blog:FanofRPGs/Cell_is_100%25_absolutely_positively_4-B_refutation_blog

I'm not that sure about it, but I figure some may want to see it

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VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#30221: Mar 17th 2018 at 2:20:25 PM

I wouldn't be surprised if Goku's farts could destroy the multiverse.

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#30222: Mar 17th 2018 at 2:50:00 PM

I seem to recall we did calculations once on just how much energy Cell would need to pump into the sun to create a supernova big enough to vaporize everything up to Neptune.

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alekos23 Since: Mar, 2013
#30223: Mar 17th 2018 at 4:00:10 PM

wonder if he'd be able to survive it.

Enlong Court Dragon from The Underground Facility Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
Court Dragon
#30224: Mar 17th 2018 at 4:00:32 PM

And that's probably the only way he could kill the solar system with a Kamehameha.

Because the Kamehameha, on a planetary scale, is a one-dimensional line. There's no way he could tag every planet in one shot. Even if they weee all lined up, he'd need to be standing on Mercury or Pluto, not Earth.

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Moth13 Since: Sep, 2010
#30225: Mar 17th 2018 at 4:07:21 PM

Which is why I doubt any of those characters can generate a wide enough blast that spreads light years with the required power to annihilate a celestial object whether its a fucking solar system or a Goddamn universe.

Its fucking ridiculous. Hell Beerus requires Whis to make FTL travel.

It is ridiculous. Dragon Ball is dumb as hell and that's why we love it. The physics of it aren't meant to be looked at with any kind of scrutiny. Just roll with it.


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