Wait, Saiga's post got thumped? Why? Tobias was being pretty passive aggressive and condescending and Saiga just stepped out of the conversation at that point. I mean, by implication he was calling Saiga an idiot.
Anyway yeah it actually sounded reasonable enough that I had to make sure to stress that I was not being serious.
edited 13th Feb '18 12:10:29 AM by Arha
I mean, the entire point of the scene in question is to establish that, while you thought Krillin being 13 made him younger than Goku at 14, Goku has actually been 12 this whole time and he's actually the younger of the two. He is inarguably 12 during the tournament. Like, maybe he was a late 12 and would turn 13 in a couple of months, but he was still 12. For that matter, Krillin didn't turn 14 before the tournament, either, so they're both close to their birthdays.
I think it's just easier to accept that the Dragon Balls resetting in less than a year is a plot hole. If you really want to justify it, maybe wishing for panties is such a dumb and low-effort wish that Shenron recharged in half a year instead of a full year.
Clearly, Toriyama made a mistake somewhere.
His explanation of Goku's age specifically retcons the first arc, so the intention was clear that he wanted Goku to be 12 for the first arc.
From there, he's either made the mistake of the DB s resetting too early, or given himself enough room for the DB s to reset (~4 months of Roshi training Goku and Kuririn before he mentions the tournament is 8 months away) and therefore not accounting that Goku should be a full year older.
The second doesn't break the rules of the setting.
For me, the one inarguable point is that Goku is 12 at the tournament. Because he is asked his age at the tournament, and he says that he's 12. Therefore, he is 12 at the tournament.
Like, I can't really fathom why this point is even being considered debatable. Like, it's as set-in-stone irrefutable canon as you can possibly get. Goku was asked his age. He said he's 12. Therefore he's 12. If you're going to ignore clearly established, directly stated facts, you might as well say that Tien's a Super Saiyan because why not?
If I've been overly condescending, I apologize, but I cannot fathom why we were even having a discussion claiming that Goku was not 12 when he clearly and undeniably said he was 12. This argument makes as much sense to me as trying to argue that Vegeta has secretly been a Namekian this whole time. I am utterly flabbergasted that this debate is even occurring.
It feels like being trolled; someone puts up a thoroughly indefensible position and then mindlessly defends it in order to watch people fall apart. But I know it's not trolling because Saiga isn't a troll. And so I'm confused, and that confusion makes me frustrated, and that frustration comes out as condescension. Again, I'm sorry, but I just can't fathom why anyone in good conscience would try to claim that Goku was...what? Lying about his age?
edited 13th Feb '18 7:43:57 AM by TobiasDrake
My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.I think there's some misunderstanding going on.
No one's saying Goku wasn't 12 when he clarified he was 12 at the 21st TB. Literally no one has said that. We're saying that he had to be 12 when he told Bulma he was 14, because when asked why he told her he was 14 he said he originally thought 14 was the number that came after 11.
edited 13th Feb '18 7:43:52 AM by Sigilbreaker26
"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"This argument started from the claim that Goku was 16 coming up on 17 at the 22nd Tenkaichi Budokai because he was 13 at the 21st.
The origin of this point of discussion was to say that when Goku fought Piccolo Daimao, he was the same age as Goten was in the epilogue: late 16 to early 17.
edited 13th Feb '18 7:45:46 AM by TobiasDrake
My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.Oh wow, then yeah, the four months just have to be after he leaves but before he searches for the dragonballs.... I think. Let me check.
Yeah, there's no other option - he has to be 12 during both the Hunt arc and the 21st TB arc, based on his statements. That means the four months have to be after the 21st TB. There's no other way to squeeze them in.
edited 13th Feb '18 8:02:36 AM by Sigilbreaker26
"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"I thought this conversation was about how Saiyan's age, but at some point it deteriorated down to Goku's precise at, at this precise point. I have to agree with Saiga on that front by the way. Assuming it's not just plot hole (which it easily could be), their position seems like the most straightforward.
I am literally at a loss for what could possibly be more straightforward than the statement,
"When Goku said he was 12 years old, he was 12 years old."
Am I missing something? What is this super-obvious detail that proves that Goku was secretly lying about his age to the tournament announcer? Why is this a controversial statement?
edited 13th Feb '18 9:28:14 AM by TobiasDrake
My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.I mean, we're not debating that. But when you put the four months somewhere, you can't put them before the tournament because Goku as good as says he was 12 when he met Bulma as well - during that statement.
"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"The origins of the argument was a defense of Goten's lack of growth by comparing to Goku? Then, regardless of his precise age, that is not accurate anyway. Goku did grow during Dragon ball, even before the 23th Budoukai. For the 22th, after the first big time skip, he was clearly taller to the point characters even commented on it. I've seem people defend Goten and Trunks lack of growing by talking about Sayan genes or whatever. But not only they are half sayans like Gohan, but that theory fall apart when even Goku changed in the span of 3 years. Until the Cell arc, Goku would have some change in design at every major time skip (more than an year).
Multiple years passed by since Gohan's introduction & during each major time-skip he looks visibly different. Compare Saiyan Saga Gohan to Cell Saga Gohan.
So ergo Goten & Trunks not aging at all since the Buu Saga is inexcusable/BULLSHIT. Don't anyone try to argue in its defense.
"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."But them not growing taller makes da perfect sense...
No other kids have grown taller.
Like Veggie got taller and Kriller got shorter.
edited 13th Feb '18 12:34:58 PM by randomness4
Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.

Yeah, that's far from the craziest theory I've ever heard. Weirdest part of it is actually the implication that Shenron can't make two people immortal at the same time.