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Dragon Ball Z Abridged

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TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#29901: Feb 11th 2018 at 7:53:23 AM

That makes the least amount of sense out of all the options. You may as well throw out all the references to his age, because they're based on what he originally said in the first arc.

No, they're not. At least, I've never used him saying he's 14 in the first arc to determine his age, given that it's explicitly unreliable.

Goku being 12 at the 21st Tenkaichi Budokai is the one and only time he has ever directly stated his age and not been mistaken. It's the only reliable point of reference for his age, period. While also being a convenient point of reference for his age through the first part of the series because the Tenkaichi Budokai provides neat three-year intervals.

By contrast, why would anyone ever use Goku's introduction to Bulma as the frame of reference for his age? At what point does the series say something like, "It's been six years since Goku and his friends battled Pilaf"? The tournaments are how we judge the length of time that's passed in the early part of the series; it's not anything to do with Goku and Bulma's original Dragon Ball hunt.

Goku and Bulma's Dragon Ball hunt is relevant only to the fact that over one year must have passed by the time the Red Ribbon Army comes up and then never again.

The extra four months also make less sense there since we see Goku depart from the Budokai and immediately cut to the next morning where he has the first reading.

No, we don't. We see Goku depart from the Budokai and that's the end of a chapter. Then a new chapter begins with a morning, some indeterminate amount of time later, where Goku's following his first blip on the radar. Nothing says this is the next morning.

edited 11th Feb '18 7:55:35 AM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#29902: Feb 11th 2018 at 9:43:45 AM

I'd like to point out that not aging isn't even unique to Goten and Trunks; Marron isn't aging either, and she seems like she might even be a bit younger. Because of its nostalgia boner, Super steadfastly sticks to the track of changing as little as possible about the characters.

edited 11th Feb '18 2:08:47 PM by LSBK

randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#29903: Feb 11th 2018 at 10:18:48 AM

She looks the appropriate height she should've been back in DBZ.

But she's suppose to be older now, so she should be the same height.

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#29904: Feb 11th 2018 at 2:06:38 PM

Yeah, I dunno what's up with Marron. Occasionally, she's drawn a little bit taller than in Z, but she's also drawn even shorter sometimes, all Depending on the Artist. She's never drawn older than Trunks in the Buu Saga, which she should be. Occasionally, the writing will have her say something somewhat mature for her appearance, but that's Depending on the Writer.

Actually, maybe she inherited Krillin's shortness. She's not that much shorter than her dad was in his introduction, and she's a few years younger than him at that point, too.

edited 11th Feb '18 2:07:22 PM by PushoverMediaCritic

WillKeaton from Alberta, Canada Since: Jun, 2010
#29905: Feb 11th 2018 at 2:08:30 PM

Speaking of Krilin's height: Is he just shorter than average, or is a he legitimate dwarf?

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#29906: Feb 11th 2018 at 3:01:42 PM

Krillin's canon adult height is 5 feet tall, and Wikipedia says that the ceiling for dwarfism is usually 4'10", though it also mentions individuals taller than that.

For comparison's sake, this is Krillin at age 13 and this is Marron at age 9.

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#29908: Feb 11th 2018 at 4:28:05 PM

Holy shit! Danny Devito is just barely above the height of a dwarf?

I had no idea.

One Strip! One Strip!
terumokou Pitiable and Illegally Dumped Object from In a bamboo forest full of bunnies, California Since: Sep, 2013 Relationship Status: Mu
Pitiable and Illegally Dumped Object
#29909: Feb 11th 2018 at 4:53:41 PM

I was expecting him to be slightly shorter honestly.

Burning love!
wanderlustwarrior Role Model from Where Gods Belong Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
Role Model
#29910: Feb 11th 2018 at 4:55:10 PM

I was expecting Verne Troyer to be taller.

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#29911: Feb 12th 2018 at 5:16:34 AM

No, they're not. At least, I've never used him saying he's 14 in the first arc to determine his age, given that it's explicitly unreliable.

Goku being 12 at the 21st Tenkaichi Budokai is the one and only time he has ever directly stated his age and not been mistaken. It's the only reliable point of reference for his age, period. While also being a convenient point of reference for his age through the first part of the series because the Tenkaichi Budokai provides neat three-year intervals.

That's completely dishonest. Goku mentioning his age as 12 at the 21st Budokai is what references his age in the first arc. He explains, through that, that he originally thought he was 14 because he thought that was the number that comes after 11. First arc Goku = the number after 11. If his statement that he is 12 in the Budokai is reliable, then so is his statement that he is 12 in the first arc. Else you have to throw both of them out and you have nothing.

No, we don't. We see Goku depart from the Budokai and that's the end of a chapter. Then a new chapter begins with a morning, some indeterminate amount of time later, where Goku's following his first blip on the radar. Nothing says this is the next morning.

Not directly, no. Goku says "i can't believe it's morning already, but I've come far". That line REALLY doesn't fit with him travelling for multiple mornings and coming far as a result of that. Especially not four months of doing so.

It's not made direct but it's pretty obvious what the intent was there. And Goku makes no mention of having to wait for the radar to find a signal.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#29912: Feb 12th 2018 at 7:34:47 AM

End of the day, what this comes down to is these three plot points:

  • Goku was 12 while searching for the Dragon Balls eight months before the Tournament, because he was 12 at the tournament and the number after 11 is 12, as Goku demonstrated by counting in front of the live tournament audience.
  • Goku was 12 at the Tournament, because he said he was 12 at the Tournament when asked his age.
  • The Dragon Balls were active the following morning despite needing another four months to become active.

So resolving that comes down to which counterpoint you think is most likely:

  • Goku was actually 11 eight months before the Tournament because his statement that 12 comes after 11 had nothing to do with his original story to Bulma, who wasn't even part of the conversation. Also the eight month time-gap was secretly longer than eight months so that the Dragon Balls could become active during it.
  • Goku was actually 13 at the Tournament and only said he was 12 because he's a lying liar-person who would never answer a question about his age honestly. And also the eight month time-gap was secretly longer than eight months.
  • The time-skip between the Tournament and Goku finding his first Dragon Ball was longer than a single night.

Or some combination thereof.

edited 12th Feb '18 7:35:30 AM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Nightwire Since: Feb, 2010
#29913: Feb 12th 2018 at 7:58:59 AM

Oh my god is this still going on

Well at least it's not another power level or "is Goku a bad parent?" debate.

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#29914: Feb 12th 2018 at 8:11:50 AM

It's remarkable that something as simple as "Goten and Trunks still look young because Super panders to nostalgia and refuses to make then look older" spiraled into any sort of debate.

AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#29915: Feb 12th 2018 at 8:54:24 AM

It's Dragon Ball, anything and everything can start an argument. It's the Star Wars of anime.

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#29916: Feb 12th 2018 at 8:55:58 AM

Honestly, at this point I just feel like we're arguing the basic premise of, "Was Goku 12 at that time when he absolutely and unquestionably said he was 12?"

edited 12th Feb '18 8:56:17 AM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Heatth (X-Troper) Relationship Status: In Spades with myself
#29917: Feb 12th 2018 at 10:02:03 AM

I'd like to point out that not aging isn't even unique to Goten and Trunks; Marron isn't aging either, and she seems like she might even be a bit younger. Because of its nostalgia boner, Super steadfastly sticks to the track of changing as little as possible about the characters.

Which in itself misses some previous nostalgic potential. Dragon Ball is still one of the few battle shonens where we get to see characters grow over time (and not in a single important time skip either, like Naruto or One Piece, but over the course of multiple arcs). I would feel very nostalgic if Supers ever bothered to try to capture this feeling back.

PS:You know, thinking about it a bit more made me really appreciate Toriyama's skills as an artist. When thinking of the time skips I mostly remember how the child characters changed (Goku, Gohan, Trunks, etc), but in fact pretty much everyone got noticeable older with time. Even Kuririn looks clearly more like an adult in "Z" than he was in the beginning, despite his design not really changing at all. It speaks of his skills to be able to draw noticeable subtle details to convey that, even in his very simplistic art style.

(of course, he still gets lazy sometimes. Goku's design froze after the Sayan arc, and Bulma's parent look exactly the same throughout the whole series)

edited 12th Feb '18 10:17:50 AM by Heatth

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#29918: Feb 12th 2018 at 10:30:55 AM

Well Super's writers are incompetant after all.

No surprise they can't even get nostalgia right.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
LordVatek Not really a lord of anything Since: Sep, 2014
Not really a lord of anything
#29919: Feb 12th 2018 at 10:37:48 AM

I don't really understand the nostalgia reasoning. Grown up Trunks would basically be an excuse to have Future Trunks around permanently and people are way more nostalgic for him.

This song needs more love.
Sigilbreaker26 Serial Procrastinator Since: Nov, 2017
Serial Procrastinator
#29920: Feb 12th 2018 at 10:43:24 AM

Grown up Trunks would be waaaaay different to Future Trunks because he doesn't have the Iron Woobie backstory or the cool moments.

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"
Kayeka (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#29921: Feb 12th 2018 at 10:47:19 AM

[up]Didn't stop GT from doing just that, though.

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#29922: Feb 12th 2018 at 1:01:30 PM
Thumped: for switching the discussion from the topic to a person. Doesn't take many of this kind of thump to bring a suspension. Stay on the topic, not the people in the discussion.
Sigilbreaker26 Serial Procrastinator Since: Nov, 2017
Serial Procrastinator
#29923: Feb 12th 2018 at 1:05:33 PM

I mean, I'm going to believe the one about the time period between the tournament and him finding the dragonballs being at least 4 months since that's the simplest one that resolves the main problem - the dragonballs simply do not reactivate in less than a year.

I'm going to agree with Taiga that Goku has to be at least 12 by the first arc since he implies it's the number after 11 - which he thought was 14. I don't think there's really any other way to interpret that. If he said "because it's the number after 10" then maybe, but otherwise, no.

edited 12th Feb '18 1:07:35 PM by Sigilbreaker26

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"
Arha Since: Jan, 2010
#29924: Feb 12th 2018 at 2:10:45 PM

The Briefs family hasn't aged because they wished for eternal youth. Since the power of the wish was split between two people they just became unaging. This is also why they already had one ball: They had used them before and managed to keep hold of one like Goku did with the four star ball that one time.

Obviously.

BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#29925: Feb 12th 2018 at 3:47:33 PM

The funny part is that it can actually be true.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.

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