The only possible way it makes sense is that Bulma just decides to sleep with Vegeta because he's hot, which is pretty much what happens in Abridged and I'd argue sort of implicitly in canon, so it's a qualified improvement at worst.
Did they? I forget.
edited 26th Jan '18 8:49:34 PM by Sigilbreaker26
"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"I'm not even asking for that, I'm just saying that what they've made is, for me (and probably others) just flat out easier to watch than the original.
Like, whenever I watch a scene of DB on youtube more often than not I just watch the TFS version because it's usually better scripted, edited and paced.
"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"Well, okay. I honestly don't think any of those comparisons are particularly fair given the situation.
The script and pacing are "better" for an abridged series. They'd be terrible for something that isn't supposed to be is my point. Better edit though, is really not something I understand.
edited 26th Jan '18 8:58:42 PM by LSBK
Like, if you're saying "TFS have significantly more freedom and time" then yeah, they do. I'm not arguing that the original production or even the original dubs should have been more like TFS, I'm arguing that the end product - regardless of how it got there - is significantly more pleasant to watch or rewatch.
"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"Which is fine then. I have no issue with people like TFS better. I have issues with people acting like the original product being more like TFS would be better for it, when they are trying to do very different things.
There are ways that Dragon Ball could have been improved. TFS-izing it isn't one of them, I think.
edited 26th Jan '18 9:01:14 PM by LSBK
![]()
There are a shitton of ways DB could be improved. Not sidelining the human characters, axing Power Levels, ("FUCK POWER LEVELS!") giving everyone not named Goku more moments to shine, tighter pacing, death actually mattering, having skill and cunning play more of a role in fights than just brute force and power ups (which incidentally would help the human characters immensely), and more besides.
But that doesn't mean DBZA can't still be seen as a more enjoyable show to watch than DBZ as it exists regardless. Even if tunring DBZ into DBZA isn't the most viable option.
edited 26th Jan '18 9:15:10 PM by kkhohoho
I mean, most of the things you said don't really sound like "improvements" in and off themselves to me.
And at no point have I said that DBZA isn't enjoyable, I enjoy it very much. I just also happen to think much of the dialogue and the like would be godawful in a non-abridged setting.
edited 26th Jan '18 9:16:55 PM by LSBK
![]()
While I sympathise with most of your complaints, I know for a fact that quite a few DB fans will ardently defend quite a lot of those aspects of DB.
'd, and vindicated similtaneously.
edited 26th Jan '18 9:15:52 PM by Sigilbreaker26
"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"
I didn't defend anything. My main point is that "humans mattering more" isn't inherently good, just like them not mattering isn't inherently bad, and people who bring that up often haven't thought up ways for it to actually be, well, good. The same for a lot of those other complaints as well. I don't consider pandering for the sake of it good.
edited 26th Jan '18 9:23:22 PM by LSBK
![]()
![]()
![]()
No offense dude but we have gone over literally everything you said a shit ton of times.
Actually its become a weekly thing for us to regurgitate the same crap over & over again.
I mean really just officially retire them. If they don't have a purpose anymore they should just not be brought up anymore.
edited 26th Jan '18 9:22:07 PM by slimcoder
"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."![]()
We've had this discussion before, and I'll say it again: if you're not going to have them do anything, and they're useless in the rules of the setting and are fully aware of such... why can't they just be let to retire? Why do Krillin, Tien, Chaotzu and Yamcha keep turning up when their role in the story amounts to nothing? I don't object either to them not being there or them having successes, but the story insists on keeping them around while giving them nothing to do.
They just become a waste of space for people who don't like them and an insult to people who do and are annoyed at them constantly getting either worfed or just standing around.
It's not about pandering, it's about keeping unnecessary elements in a story.
edited 26th Jan '18 9:24:42 PM by Sigilbreaker26
"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"Super had humans mattering.
Also can someone explain why power levels are so bad? It's just a numerical value for power creep that would have happened anyway. Raditz would still be extremely powerful without them and Frieza would still require Super Saiyan to beat.
This song needs more love.
Because it breaks show, don't tell, because it defines power as a very static measure taking into account speed, strength, durability, (so you can't have, for example, a Glass Cannon or a Stone Wall or a Fragile Speedster), because it locks the characters in a hierarchy...
...there are plenty of reasons to dislike it, quite frankly. It's also, IMO, very juvenile; my number is bigger than yours.
"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"@Sigil, You keep talking as if any and all unnecessary elements are bad and should be removed, which is not something I agree with.
Characters can have other characters they interact with without them needing to be strictly necessary to the plot. Krillin at all were basically retired, but that they still existed but didn't fight didn't somehow hurt the story. Not all characters need to serve some vital function, at all times.
![]()
Honestly, I think it's just an easy target. All "power levels" mean is that some people are stronger, and usually the stronger person will win. The series was always like that, and that's how most series are. The numbers just give people something more "tangible" to complain about, even though the numbers themselves were only around for a relatively short amount of time. People try to dress it up, but that's mostly it from what I've seen.
edited 26th Jan '18 9:31:45 PM by LSBK
"Not all characters need to serve some vital function, at all times."
Post Saiyan Saga, the only reason Tien, Chaotzu and Yamcha matter is that Goku has to bring them back. They do absolutely nothing important for the rest of the series; and yes, that includes Tien intervening with Cell because thanks to idiocy of other characters that didn't fix anything. Krillin is also pretty much useless even on Namek where he's the team leader; honestly Gohan was more of an asset than him there. So for a large chunk of the story they don't matter at all.
They don't serve a vital function any of the time for the majority of Z, and none of them have any important non-tournament victories in DB either.
edited 26th Jan '18 9:32:18 PM by Sigilbreaker26
"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"![]()
![]()
![]()
Yeah my point is all of that would have happened regardless. They're a symptom not a cause.
edited 26th Jan '18 9:31:40 PM by LordVatek
This song needs more love.
I know, but it's easy for some people to not think about that. It doesn't really make sense. The series was never totally free of strategy and tactics, it just didn't pretend that all power gaps could be overcome with strategy and tactics, which I think is fairly reasonable.
![]()
And none of that is reason for them to not show up. Nothing you've said makes them actively detrimental to the story, so I see no reason for the character ties to be cut just because. If they did stop showing up that would have been fine, but if your point is them being around doesn't change anything, then there's no real reason for them not to be around either.
edited 26th Jan '18 9:35:17 PM by LSBK
There are plenty of reasons; waste of time and resources (which are important for a mangaka; why waste time drawing Tien and Yamcha when they play no role?), dangling a carrot in front of their fans when they're never going to really matter, etc.
As for power levels; I think Super probably shows why they're such a pandora's box. When you didn't have them, things were vague. There was leeway for the author. But since they're there, all the stuff the author wants to happen (such as dig up a bunch of old side characters and have some fun with them) can't happen because they had power levels stuck to them once 20 years or so ago and the databooks kept updating them. So either the author cares and is now massively, arbitrarily limited in their options, or they don't care, and the fans (or, a subset of fans) get angry, which is what happened with Super.
Power levels are just a crutch for when the author can't have feats anymore (since he was at the level when the only way to go up was "can destroy planets") and needs a way to just tell you "this guy is better than this guy but worse than this guy". But they're also a trap, for the reasons I've just mentioned.
So, in short, fuck power levels.
"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"I could go over the many issues I have with everything you posted, but instead I'll just sum it up as such: "power levels" aren't a "crunch" they're something that needs to exist if you want to have any consistency with strength levels and understanding how strong characters are going to be. Whether they're defined with actual numbers or not doesn't actually matter.
And as I've said, almost all complaints about it just seem to be dressings up that some people just don't like that "skill" or "intelligence" (also often nebulous and poorly defined) can't overcome everything.
edited 26th Jan '18 9:54:21 PM by LSBK

Eh, I'd agree, but I also don't consider it particularly important. Relationships end, and Yamcha and Bulma were never really that good together.
Edit: Also, they didn't even take out Yamcha cheating on Bulma, it's mentioned in the first episode. And although they've kind of treat the earlier episodes like their Old Shame, it still applies.
edited 26th Jan '18 8:49:03 PM by LSBK