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Kayeka (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#29401: Jan 12th 2018 at 5:56:57 AM

[up][up]Well, someone ends up using a technique for the first time, right?

Also, [up]

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#29402: Jan 12th 2018 at 6:00:18 AM

I don't mind the Spirit Bomb Sword because it thankfully didn't matter in the end.

Sigilbreaker26 Serial Procrastinator Since: Nov, 2017
Serial Procrastinator
#29403: Jan 12th 2018 at 6:35:03 AM

[up][up] Are... are you serious?

There's a difference between developing a technique over time and just pulling one out of your ass in the middle of a fight. It's not like the various Ki blast techniques, it works off of a completely different principle to basically any other attack in Dragonball.

No, I'm sorry. Even for Dragonball standards, the whole Spirit Sword thing was mindbogglingly dumb. If you want to say "Rule of Cool" then fine but it was still a gigantic Ass Pull.

Like, if Vegeta suddenly used the Kaioken right now it would actually make more sense because he has actually seen that move performed before. Heck, Piccolo, Tien, or friggin Yamcha are more likely to use the Spirit Bomb than Trunks since they've actually trained under King Kai!

edited 12th Jan '18 6:37:45 AM by Sigilbreaker26

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"
Kayeka (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#29404: Jan 12th 2018 at 6:41:33 AM

Hey, that's how science happens. "The fuck just happened?" followed by "Can we do it again?". Trunks already managed to create a blade out of energy, probably by following Zamasu's example, got a lot of extra energy from his cheerleader squad, and then applied it to said energy sword.

And of course I'm not serious. The entire concept of "serious" doesn't apply to Dragonball. It's a gag manga with fights. Cool and funny beat consistency, power levels are bullshit, and a couple of minutes can somehow last dozens of episodes. It wouldn't be Dragonball otherwise.

edited 12th Jan '18 6:44:28 AM by Kayeka

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#29405: Jan 12th 2018 at 7:18:12 AM

The answer is "because Toei". Toei's never cared about what battle power a character is. Why would they care what techniques a character knows?

Notably, while Trunks bisecting Zamasu with his sword does happen in the manga, the part where he pulls a Genki-Dama out of his arse to give him the power to do it is all anime.

I haven't seen the anime, though. Honestly, I'm at a loss for where Trunks would even get the energy for a Genki-Dama on a planet that's already been exterminated by Zamasu.

edited 12th Jan '18 7:20:14 AM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Moth13 Since: Sep, 2010
#29406: Jan 12th 2018 at 7:22:45 AM

The planet hadn't been fully exterminated by that point.

edited 12th Jan '18 7:23:02 AM by Moth13

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#29407: Jan 12th 2018 at 7:24:28 AM

Ah. That might be another anime thing. The manga calls out Mai and Trunks as the only Earthlings left alive, IIRC.

By the time they fight Zamasu in the manga, he's exterminated the planet so there's already no hope for this future. The battle is for the fate of others, because he intends to go through all the universes and wipe out all mortal life and then do the same through all the timelines until there's nowhere in the entire fabric of reality that mortals exist.

edited 12th Jan '18 7:26:07 AM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Sigilbreaker26 Serial Procrastinator Since: Nov, 2017
Serial Procrastinator
#29408: Jan 12th 2018 at 7:26:38 AM

It's not exterminated in the anime. Just down to about 100 people, maybe 200 at most.

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"
VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#29409: Jan 12th 2018 at 7:33:06 AM

There aren't nearly enough people left on Earth to form a believably damaging spirit bomb though.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#29410: Jan 12th 2018 at 7:33:40 AM

...the more I think on it, the more mixed my feelings on this Spirit Sword thing become. On the one hand, it's like, it sounds like they're using that as a way of justifying why Trunks would be able to harm Zamasu. The Genki-Dama closes the gap between him and Zamasu the same way that in Super Android 13, Goku absorbed the Genki-Dama to close the gap between him and Super 13.

Eating the Genki-Dama to gain all its power for yourself is a previously established Toei thing.

And I want to criticize that but at the same time, the manga has no justification. In the manga, Zamasu's fusion has started to come undone but his immortality results in a gooey mess holding him together. His two sides are trying to be forced apart but his immortality is trying to regenerate them back together.

Trunks "helps" by slicing the two apart with his sword. In this scenario, it's not about how powerful he is; it's just about the blade being sharp.

So it feels awkward to criticize a Genki-Dama made from only a couple hundred people as a poor justification when it's being used to justify a thing that never even needed to be justified in the first place.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Sigilbreaker26 Serial Procrastinator Since: Nov, 2017
Serial Procrastinator
#29411: Jan 12th 2018 at 7:36:34 AM

Well, that's what my problem is. They could have just had Trunks go up and slice, maybe infuse his sword with his own Ki or something to get the look. The actual spirit bomb is what takes me out of the experience.

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"
Eriorguez Since: Jun, 2009
#29412: Jan 12th 2018 at 8:35:54 AM

Tagoma almost killed Goku with a gun. Also, defusing Zamasu wouldn't really be a stable body, with his guard up.

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#29413: Jan 12th 2018 at 8:42:58 AM

I both like the Spirit Bomb Sword (it's something very different, and makes use of a weapon, which have never had a good run in Dragonball beyond the Nyoi-bo), and recognize that it makes no sense either (for all the stated reasons).

I do wish that Toriyama had bothered to remember King Kai in the original Cell Saga (and by that, I mean, in Trunks' future; why wasn't Goku going to King Kai to help Gohan from beyond the grave or anything).

It was done in order to justify Trunks being totally alone and make the time travel plan viable, but I find it odd that King Kai just wasn't a factor. Then maybe Trunks could have had the excuse of learning the Spirit Bomb, but never being able to pull it off properly or something.

After that, Goku Black kills King Kai like he does every other god (barring the Supreme Kai, who dies in the fight with Babidi).

I still think the actual attack is pretty cool, but there's so much fridge logic behind it that even I can't defend it (and yeah, it's kinda unnecessary as well).

One Strip! One Strip!
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#29414: Jan 12th 2018 at 9:12:39 AM

I belive only the human built cities were wastelands.

Zamasu had a cabin in nature & the surrondings looked great so most likely the majority of the planet was still in good condition.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Thebrawlbro Since: Aug, 2013
#29415: Jan 12th 2018 at 9:18:43 AM

Yeah, he only hated the humans, and was perfectly fine with the rest of the animals. His Utopia was a world without humans, not without life in general.

Arha Since: Jan, 2010
#29416: Jan 12th 2018 at 9:19:14 AM

We saw that outside the city everything was still intact and nice looking.

edited 12th Jan '18 9:19:22 AM by Arha

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#29417: Jan 12th 2018 at 9:27:52 AM

He also hated those lizard people, so I wasn't entirely sure if the translation on "human" was accurate or if it's more generally mortals that he despises. It's kind of awkward for Zamasu to be staring at bipedal lizard monsters and going, "These humans are the worst!"

How much time did the anime spend on Trunks being trained by Kaioshin to fight Majin Buu? The manga mentions this; it's kind of an important plot point because being apprenticed to a Kaioshin grants him the ability to heal. If they worked Kaio-sama into that, then his involvement in Trunks's training could justify him being able to perform the Genki-Dama.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Sigilbreaker26 Serial Procrastinator Since: Nov, 2017
Serial Procrastinator
#29418: Jan 12th 2018 at 9:31:29 AM

I believe the word that's become a bit of a bugbear is "Ningen" or something to that effect. It literally translates as "human" I believe, but the context that Zamasu is using it in fits much better with "mortals".

edited 12th Jan '18 9:31:41 AM by Sigilbreaker26

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#29419: Jan 12th 2018 at 9:45:52 AM

Yeah, that's the one. It means "human" but I've seen other anime/manga use it as a catch-all term for "denizens of the mortal plane". Like, in Japan, "human" can be a species but it can also mean anyone who lives in the "human world", which I think is called Ninkai? Something like that.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#29420: Jan 12th 2018 at 9:47:33 AM

How much time did the anime spend on Trunks being trained by Kaioshin to fight Majin Buu? The manga mentions this; it's kind of an important plot point because being apprenticed to a Kaioshin grants him the ability to heal. If they worked Kaio-sama into that, then his involvement in Trunks's training could justify him being able to perform the Genki-Dama.

The anime covered all the same beats, but mostly went over it in a quick flashback. Here's the scene in question:

Edit: I used a clip that was too long actually, since the actual Dabura fight was shorter than I remembered. Also there's obviously some spoilers if you've neither read the manga nor watched the anime. Sorry I didn't mention that before.

edited 12th Jan '18 9:52:07 AM by HandsomeRob

One Strip! One Strip!
wanderlustwarrior Role Model from Where Gods Belong Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
Role Model
#29421: Jan 12th 2018 at 12:12:36 PM

So since this is the general Dragon Ball thread, a brief youtube walk reminded me why I liked Cooler's Armored Squadron: cool personality and abilities, and a good fight with Piccolo. I also saw a DB scene I'd never seen in the suggested videos, Annin vs Goku.

Annin has a really cool design!

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#29422: Jan 12th 2018 at 1:20:07 PM

[up] Uh this isn't the actual Dragon Ball thread though.

Its more of a subsidiary.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Kayeka (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#29424: Jan 12th 2018 at 1:23:28 PM

[up] On the internet everything's a joke.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
wanderlustwarrior Role Model from Where Gods Belong Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?

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