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Darthwyn leader of Inherit from The void Since: Feb, 2016 Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
leader of Inherit
#29351: Jan 10th 2018 at 10:21:29 PM

Though to be fair I don't think anyone before then tested the limits of immortality there is usually a difference between being unable to die and being completely invulnerable.

"Shall I use you, or make you mine... I'm not so sure what I'll do." - Dorthy
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#29352: Jan 10th 2018 at 10:24:03 PM

That depends on the work in question. But the Dragons in Dragon Ball usually go by what the person asking for actually intents, and since the Super Dragon Balls are supposed to be able to grant any wish, it was inevitable.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#29353: Jan 11th 2018 at 7:25:36 AM

We've never seen an immortality wish granted before, aside from Movie and Filler Exclusive Garlic Jr. Apparently, the way it works is that it doesn't make you invulnerable; instead, it regenerates you from any injury and gives you, like, infinite ki reserves and stamina. So even if you can't win a fight with a stronger adversary, they still can't actually kill you and you can wear them down.

What's odd is that Zamasu opted to do this with the Super Dragon Balls when it seems like the regular ones would work just fine.

wild mass guess The regular Dragon Balls can't grant immortality. Vegeta and Frieza thought they could, but never got a chance to make those wishes and never found out otherwise. As the evil half of God, Piccolo knew that immortality wasn't on the table, which is why he only wished for his youth to be restored. Vegeta later learned this from Piccolo after Namek, resulting in him never trying to make that wish again.wild mass guess

edited 11th Jan '18 7:26:53 AM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Hobgoblin Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#29354: Jan 11th 2018 at 9:56:50 AM

Can't Vegetto use Instant Transmission, which is a Goku exclusive power? Why wouldn't he be able to turn God?

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#29355: Jan 11th 2018 at 10:08:30 AM

Well, Super Saiyan God doesn't even appear again in the anime until Goku uses it to fight Dyspo in the Tournament of Power, roughly 30 episodes after Vegetto showed up.

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#29356: Jan 11th 2018 at 11:51:31 AM

[up][up][up]Presumably, the Super Dragon Balls could overturn a wish for immortality made on the regular Dragon Balls but not vice-versa, so he went with the highest-authority set of balls and then destroyed them so his immortality can't even be un-wished.

edited 11th Jan '18 12:14:36 PM by Anomalocaris20

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#29357: Jan 11th 2018 at 12:13:51 PM

It's also probable that Zamasu didn't know about the two other sets of Dragon Balls, since he first learned about the Super ones while watching the tournament.

wanderlustwarrior Role Model from Where Gods Belong Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
Role Model
#29358: Jan 11th 2018 at 1:54:01 PM

So... did they ever explain where the Super Balls came from? I don't actually follow that series.

Is there a Legendary Super Namekian that made them?

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#29359: Jan 11th 2018 at 1:55:28 PM

No an Ultra God from long ago made them & he also patented Dragon Balls.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#29360: Jan 11th 2018 at 1:56:38 PM

Yeah, the Namekians cripped the idea of the Dragon Balls from the Super Dragon Balls, which were made by this Dragon God.

edited 11th Jan '18 1:57:23 PM by LSBK

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
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#29361: Jan 11th 2018 at 1:58:10 PM

I'm actually not sure. What's really weird about them is that they scatter across the universes, but only universes 6 and 7. The other 10 universes don't get to have Super Dragon Balls.

That's an awkward and kinda arbitrary distinction. Like, if you're going to make them scatter across universes, they should scatter across all the universes. It's not like this was used to give the characters a reason to explode universe 6 either; the Balls have been gathered twice and both times, it was all done offscreen.

It, like everything else about the Super Dragon Balls, is completely arbitrary and there's no real indication of why they even exist as a plot device. I think Toriyama just really liked the image of giant Dragon Balls floating in orbit around the tournament stage.

They're Dragon Balls except bigger, harder to find, and you only get one wish.

edited 11th Jan '18 1:59:08 PM by TobiasDrake

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LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#29362: Jan 11th 2018 at 2:02:44 PM

I mean, Super is pretty arbitrary but it's not like there's no story behind the Super Dragon Balls: The Dragon God Zamala (or something) made the Super Dragon Balls so that anyone who gathers them can summon him to request a wish for his infinite power or something. He also patented the star pattern.

The Namkians (in both Universe 6 and Universe 7) based their Dragon Balls of it and/or chipped away fragments of the originals. Now as for why Zamala wants to grant people's wishes....eh.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#29363: Jan 11th 2018 at 2:05:17 PM

They explicitly stated the origins of said super balls.

The only things still in question are the exact reasoning for their creation & where the fuck the creator is.

edited 11th Jan '18 2:13:34 PM by slimcoder

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#29365: Jan 11th 2018 at 2:10:10 PM

Weird cause I recall the dragon & creator being separate beings.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
wanderlustwarrior Role Model from Where Gods Belong Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
Role Model
#29366: Jan 11th 2018 at 2:11:34 PM

Now that I have a name, I checked the wiki. [up]He's right, they're separate creatures.

So... you guys were serious about "patenting". Huh.

Also, since he's an Unseen Character, it's possible that he's an Albino ancient Namekian, and that's why they're the only species able to make them, as well as why they're limited to those two universes.

edited 11th Jan '18 2:12:04 PM by wanderlustwarrior

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#29367: Jan 11th 2018 at 2:14:10 PM

Wait a minute did they say who the name of the creator was?

Cause I think I may have confused the dragons name for the creator.

[up] Well Heaven is a bureaucracy so it makes sense in a way.

edited 11th Jan '18 2:14:41 PM by slimcoder

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
WillKeaton from Alberta, Canada Since: Jun, 2010
#29368: Jan 11th 2018 at 2:23:47 PM

The wiki says Zalama created the balls and that the dragon that is summoned is Super Shenron.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#29369: Jan 11th 2018 at 2:25:28 PM

It, like everything else about the Super Dragon Balls, is completely arbitrary and there's no real indication of why they even exist as a plot device.

They have an origin in-universe but they don't really do anything special and they actually grant fewer wishes than the regular Dragon Balls. These are the wishes that have been made on them:

  1. Restore the planet Earth in Universe 6.
  2. Allow Zamasu to steal Goku's body, Ginyu-style.
  3. Make Future Zamasu immortal.

I guess the idea is that they aren't limited by the power of their creator. The first one was able to repopulate Universe 6's Earth without having to abide the one-year time limit for mass revivals, after all.

The second one seems impressive because the regular Dragon Balls can't grant wishes affecting anyone more powerful than God, but it's still pretty underwhelming when the Super Dragon Balls were assembled just to reproduce a skill that Captain Ginyu has.

And the third one, so far as we know, is a bog-standard Dragon Ball wish that either Shenron or Porunga could have granted at any time.

And again: despite how seemingly awesome the idea of having to traverse only two of the twelve universes to find the Super Dragon Balls might be, they're always collected offscreen by gods. In fact, being planet-sized greatly limits their storytelling capabilities, because it means there can't really be an arc where, like, Goku and Vegeta visit Universe 6's Saiyan planet to find the Super Dragon Ball hidden there or something.

All in all, they're pretty underwhelming. Visibly awesome but very limited narrative value.

edited 11th Jan '18 2:27:13 PM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
wanderlustwarrior Role Model from Where Gods Belong Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
Role Model
#29370: Jan 11th 2018 at 2:34:16 PM

So I just checked the wiki, and Piccolo is indeed a member of the Dragon clan (hence his ability to use Clothes Beam and make an hourglass), just not as good as is needed to make Dragon Balls). Maybe that's because that was a Kami-level thing and he didn't absorb all of Kami's skill upon fusing? He did get King Piccolo's eternal youth though...

I wonder... if Cell trained in magic, would he be able to make his own Dragon Balls? Could Piccolo?

Eriorguez Since: Jun, 2009
#29371: Jan 11th 2018 at 2:59:10 PM

The Wiki has this tendency to pull stuff out of its ileocecal valve, tho...

When will Kanzenshuu's become a thing, anyway?

edited 11th Jan '18 3:01:19 PM by Eriorguez

WillKeaton from Alberta, Canada Since: Jun, 2010
#29372: Jan 11th 2018 at 2:59:59 PM

Picolo should be able to make dargonballs, because he's half of Kami. Cell though, geez, I don't know. Like, could Cell turn into an Ozaru? And why is he like 50% bug? Did Gero stop by Arlia at some point?

edited 11th Jan '18 3:00:14 PM by WillKeaton

Sigilbreaker26 Serial Procrastinator Since: Nov, 2017
Serial Procrastinator
#29373: Jan 11th 2018 at 3:10:24 PM

Well, his sort of armour plates look kinda similar to Freeza's from a certain angle, and of course he's green because Namekians... as for that Crown thing, I dunno. Maybe it's Saiyan hair run through the Namek and Freeza filters.

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"
Eriorguez Since: Jun, 2009
#29374: Jan 11th 2018 at 3:12:12 PM

Cell takes quite heavily after Freeza, after all.

wanderlustwarrior Role Model from Where Gods Belong Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
Role Model
#29375: Jan 11th 2018 at 3:14:25 PM

[up][up][up][up]I only remembered enough medical science to get the "ileo" part of that, but that general range is enough info.
Also, there are some things where the wiki is more useful than Kanzenshuu.

[up][up]If he went Super Cell 3, would his crown grow? If he obtained his final form, would it disappear?

edited 11th Jan '18 3:14:42 PM by wanderlustwarrior


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