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Sigilbreaker26 Serial Procrastinator Since: Nov, 2017
Serial Procrastinator
#29326: Jan 10th 2018 at 12:35:54 PM

[up] yeah, it's pretty dumb.

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"
wanderlustwarrior Role Model from Where Gods Belong Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
Role Model
#29327: Jan 10th 2018 at 12:55:27 PM

What, there was another one this weekend?

For the record, (Saiyan) transformations in each series off the top of my head:

DB:

  1. Base
  2. Great Ape
DBZ
  1. Super
  2. Super 2
  3. Super 3
  • Also: Kaio-ken (Goku only so far), Trunks' midgrade form, Vegeta's midgrade form, "Mystic" Gohan
GT
  1. Super 4
  2. Great Golden Monkey
Non-Canon
  • Legendary (Broly), he has some other states but I don't care
Super
  1. SSG
  2. Saiyan Beyond God
  3. SSGSS i.e. Palindrome / Blueper Saiyan,(also Blueper Completed, manga only)
  4. Rose
  • Also: Ultra Instinct (Goku), Berserker (Kale), Perfect Control (Kale), True Legendary (Kale), Blue plus Kaio-Ken (Goku), and I think I'm missing some.

edited 10th Jan '18 12:56:46 PM by wanderlustwarrior

Ghilz Perpetually Confused from Yeeted at Relativistic Velocities Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Perpetually Confused
#29328: Jan 10th 2018 at 12:58:24 PM

"Maximum Oversaiyan"

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#29329: Jan 10th 2018 at 1:06:00 PM

Okay, is Potara still more powerful by default? Is the only difference between the two the default strength and that it's easier to enter and exit than the Fusion Dance, but doesn't come with as cool an outfit?

There's no way to actually know if Potara produces a more powerful fused individual than the dance, and because there's no downside to using the earrings there's no reason for Goku and Vegeta to resort to the dance either.

edited 10th Jan '18 1:06:30 PM by VeryMelon

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#29330: Jan 10th 2018 at 1:07:14 PM

For Vegetto's nerf, I wasn't talkimg about the new limits put on potara, but just how he feels significantly less powerful than he was in the Boo arc.

SS 1 Vegetto towered over an opponent who was more than twice as powerful than an opponent SS 3 Goku couldn't even touch. Blue Vegetto dominates the villain but finds him too tough to finish off, even though said villain was an opponent Blue Goku could still harm.

He lost that 'can do far better in a lower form' schtick that made him so impressive, and also didn't look as impressive in the actual fight.

Larkmarn Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Hello, I love you
#29331: Jan 10th 2018 at 1:20:19 PM

I think that's more "power levels/tiers now manage to make even less sense" more than anything else.

[up][up][up][up] Did you include Trunks' Super Saiyan Rage?

edited 10th Jan '18 1:21:41 PM by Larkmarn

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TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#29332: Jan 10th 2018 at 2:04:48 PM

To be fair, the fight Blue Vegetto was brought into was a Sisyphean task. His adversary had made an immortality wish and literally could not be killed.

There's only so well one can perform against a foe who regenerates infinitely from any and all harm.

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Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#29333: Jan 10th 2018 at 2:16:38 PM

Anime Zamasu had lost his immortality at that point for dumb reasons.

Sigilbreaker26 Serial Procrastinator Since: Nov, 2017
Serial Procrastinator
#29334: Jan 10th 2018 at 2:18:09 PM

Wasn't it because he had fused with Goku Black? I wouldn't call that a dumb reason.

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#29335: Jan 10th 2018 at 2:20:38 PM

Vegetto didn't become half-dead from Goku fusing with Vegeta, so I would say it's dumb to lose immortality from one fusee lacking it.

Sigilbreaker26 Serial Procrastinator Since: Nov, 2017
Serial Procrastinator
#29336: Jan 10th 2018 at 2:21:40 PM

He didn't really outright lose it though. It just caused part of him to melt. They never were really able to kill Zamasu.

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"
Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#29337: Jan 10th 2018 at 2:24:21 PM

When you destroy the physical body of someone for whom there's a new law of physics saying "This person is alive, end of story", bad things happen. tongue

edited 10th Jan '18 2:24:35 PM by Anomalocaris20

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Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#29338: Jan 10th 2018 at 2:34:03 PM

[up][up] They're completely arbitrary about what it means for him to lose his immortality.

But regardless, he could be physically destroyed, and Vegetto wasn't able to do it even though he should be by far the most capable person for it.

Sigilbreaker26 Serial Procrastinator Since: Nov, 2017
Serial Procrastinator
#29339: Jan 10th 2018 at 2:52:41 PM

[up] Like, I'm not defending Trunks somehow Spiritswording him when Vegetto couldn't take him note  and then the arc just sort of getting a really weird and unsatisfying ending, but having Zamasu lose his immortality via fusion is actually a fairly decent way to get around that advantage.

(The best way would be to have Zamasu get Mafuba'd, for that process to incapacitate Goku or Vegeta and have Goku Black fight the other to the death, but I digress.)

edited 10th Jan '18 2:54:58 PM by Sigilbreaker26

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#29340: Jan 10th 2018 at 4:18:44 PM

I don't find it consistent with how we've previously seen potara between two people of varying mortal state. And it feels cheap when it wasn't set up beforehand.

Also, dropping the immortality is one thing, keeping them in a vague quasi-immortal state that changes to suit the need of the plot is very sloppy.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
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#29341: Jan 10th 2018 at 4:26:14 PM

I haven't seen the anime version. <.< In the manga, Fused Zamasu is still totes immortal and Vegetto's basically just buying time by slamming his face into a rock over and over until his time limit runs out and he defuses. Then he'll gank Goku Black. That's the plan, anyway.

Shit gets really weird and kinda stupid after Blue Vegetto stops being part of the arc.

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Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#29342: Jan 10th 2018 at 4:44:38 PM

Ah. Wasn't aware that you had only read the manga.

The immortality leaves room for Vegetto to be as much of a power-up as he was originally, but the fact that he uses Blue to do what he does really diminishes that feeling even if he still dominates that fight.

God's meant to still be pretty strong, you'd think he'd use that if it were sufficient.

Sigilbreaker26 Serial Procrastinator Since: Nov, 2017
Serial Procrastinator
#29343: Jan 10th 2018 at 6:02:23 PM

Well, since Vegeta can't go God there's no reason to think Vegetto could.

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#29344: Jan 10th 2018 at 6:06:41 PM

I'm pretty sure he can.

You need it to be able to go Blue.

edited 10th Jan '18 6:06:54 PM by slimcoder

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#29345: Jan 10th 2018 at 6:22:28 PM

Vegeta's never used God in the anime, and Vegetto showed up before the anime writers even thought to have Goku be able to use God whenever he wants.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#29346: Jan 10th 2018 at 6:24:38 PM

Vegeta never went God in the anime?

That's disappointing. I really liked his use of Super Saiyan God against Goku Black in the manga, flaring into Blue just for split-seconds as he landed his blows as a way of getting around Blue's energy bleed. Really showed how far he's come, harkening back to the kind of shit Goku used to do with his Kaioken.

edited 10th Jan '18 6:25:59 PM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Moth13 Since: Sep, 2010
#29347: Jan 10th 2018 at 6:26:18 PM

In the manga both Goku and Vegeta could go God, so theoretically there could be a God Vegito vs Fused Zamasu fight there. Vegito used Blue instead because A) they didn't know too much power would lower the time limit B) he wanted as much power as possible to try to get around Zamasu's regeneration and C) it's cooler.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
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#29348: Jan 10th 2018 at 6:27:39 PM

B is a stupid reason. That was his reason, but it's a stupid reason. He was literally trying to beat the immortality out of Zamasu. To quote Abridged Garlic Jr.,

"Oh, really? You want to stress-test this? Sure, go ahead! And while my men are scraping little green chunks off the wall, I'll be partying in my throne room with a harem of sexy demon skanks! Seriously, what part of IMMORTALITY don't you understand?"

edited 10th Jan '18 6:29:48 PM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
TheMageofFire Since: May, 2012
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#29350: Jan 10th 2018 at 7:40:23 PM

@Sigil That was specific to the manga version, where both Saiyans could go God and it was shown to be very useful.


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