What? No!
Why? Why would you do this Toriyama? Evolution was bad, but that doesn't make this right!
You hear me! This isn't right!
One Strip! One Strip!I do wonder if Toriyama making Goku more explicitly a bad parent is a product of time and hindsight. Like, I do agree that while Goku did a lot of things that were heavily criticized with his parenting back in the original manga, it's not clear that Toriyama necessarily meant for him to be a bad father then.
But that was like 20 years ago. The series has been dissected and deliberated to death, and Toriyama's undoubtedly heard a lot of opinions about it since its conclusion.
It might be that he wasn't intending to portray Goku as a bad dad but then, years later, looked back and went, "Huh. Goku was kind of a shitty father, wasn't he?" At which point, you got two options as an author: try and throw in a bunch of after-the-fact rationalizations and an Author's Saving Throw or two to go, "NONONONONO he was REALLY a good dad, honest!" or just shrug your shoulders and accept this accidental bit of characterization as canon.
I do agree with Saiga's criticism that Super needs to do something with it. If Toriyama's onboard with the idea that Goku's fathering is shit, there should be a confrontation about it. This should be a point of conflict to ultimately resolve.
edited 7th Jan '18 7:19:15 PM by TobiasDrake
My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.I still think you're missing the point here Tobias. Whether Toriyama always intended for him to be a bad father or not doesn't really matter for how Goku was written, and although he wasn't originally written as the greatest father in the world, many of the things people, yourself included, use to paint him as one are not inarguable or indisputable facts.
The whole "why didn't he contact his family while dead" thing, is one, for example. Really, it doesn't really matter what Toriyama wanted, if it didn't come through that way for some people, there's no changing it now.
And like Saiga said, playing up Goku's bad traits just for the sake of it with no apparent greater intention to do anything with it, does not make the story better.
I honestly think this is just another one of Toriyama's "write by the seat of his pants" style. He exaggerated Goku's negative qualities because that's what he wanted to do, nothing more or nothing less. He had no grand character development in mind for Goku and I doubt he ever will, because it's not something he's interested in.
And if it contradicts previous characterization and story....welp, tough cookies. He probably forgot about a lot of the older story details he's written and likely doesn't care to go back and look at what makes sense, because once again, it's not something he's interested in doing.
A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.Honestly with the way Chi Chi has always been written and the story treats her as having a point as well as being rewarded for it from the first episode on ward. Goku was always meant to be the one that was bad.
Also remember the english version of Z doctored up Goku to make him seem FAR more heroic than he actually was. Goku isnt the model anything but a fighter, even being a hero tends to be incidental to his other goals.
He isnt fighting the Red Ribbon army to be the big hero taking down an evil org, he is only doing it for the dragonballs.
edited 7th Jan '18 7:36:08 PM by Memers
I think Goku summarized it best himself in the Android 17 recruitment episode: "I don't go out looking to right wrongs or save other people, I just like fighting and getting a challenge. But I'm also not going to sit around and do nothing if innocent people are being hurt right in front of me."
edited 7th Jan '18 7:42:42 PM by PushoverMediaCritic
This in particular annoys me because if a character's portrayal is popular, even if it the author feels that it's wrong, then changing that portrayal (especially to the extent that Toriyama did) seems like a bad idea.
This song needs more love.I agree with this.
I also agree with this, but as the quote pointed out, Toriyama will do what he wants regardless of anything else, even what he's written before.
Well there was that one dude who kept making him change the Villain of the Android saga.
I mean, if someone was willing to do that in a more positive way rather than just making him do the super villain shuffle, maybe shit like this wouldn't happen.
One Strip! One Strip!It's funny to think how much the Android Saga was derailed because of the opinion of someone who Toriyama didn't even actually need to listen to.
....oh....well now I dislike him.
edited 7th Jan '18 9:43:05 PM by HandsomeRob
One Strip! One Strip!Wait, then why did Toriyama think Android 18 would wow him after he expressed his disapproval of 19 and 20?
My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.

IIRC, Daikaio is mentioned in the manga; he just doesn't show up in person.
edited 7th Jan '18 6:56:14 PM by TobiasDrake
My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.