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slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#29101: Jan 6th 2018 at 2:13:16 PM

[up][up] The Sons live off the grid. As long as Goku brings in a haul of big fish or meat he's providing.

edited 6th Jan '18 2:13:41 PM by slimcoder

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
wanderlustwarrior Role Model from Where Gods Belong Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
Role Model
#29102: Jan 6th 2018 at 2:14:12 PM

The list was the extent of what Goku was doing for Gohan (and Goten)'s time alive. If most of that has nothing to do with his son(s), that's proving the point. He spent at most 8 years with his firstborn son, and none with his second, despite having the power to do so.

Also, when someone killed or threatened to kill his son, his response was "let's see how my son fights first. If he loses, then I fight, Only if you fight dirty against me will I punish/kill you, even if you kill my son."
What the fuck, Goku?

Remember, I'm usually on the TFS and this thread takes the bad dad commentary too far... but he is canonically a bad dad.

Ghilz Perpetually Confused from Yeeted at Relativistic Velocities Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Perpetually Confused
#29103: Jan 6th 2018 at 2:15:19 PM

The Sons live off the grid.

Leaving aside that Chichi's clearly putting a lot of effort in educating Gohan that it leave their "Off the grid-ness" in question, they own both a cars (PLANES!) and T Vs.

"Living in the Countryside" is not "Off the grid"

wanderlustwarrior Role Model from Where Gods Belong Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
Role Model
#29104: Jan 6th 2018 at 2:16:24 PM

I didn't know how long exactly the gap was between Buu and Uub, but the point is that he went... "This guy killed my sons? I'll spend time with my sons until he's strong enough to work out with, then I'll work out with him." That's some Norman Osborn fatherhood shit.

[up]Aren't they living off the Ox King's money? Roshi, Krillin, and Tien (and every now and then Yamcha) are broke, but the Sons aren't. And even then, if anyone really needed it, Bulma (and eventually Hercule) could probably lend a hand. Also, Dragon Balls. They're not really in comparative lot of need, and they seem to have grown up that way (except Chi Chi).

edited 6th Jan '18 2:19:01 PM by wanderlustwarrior

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#29105: Jan 6th 2018 at 2:17:01 PM

I mean, when a bunch of bullshit gets in the way that stops "family time" what exactly do you expect to happen? Even staying dead and the like had reasons beyond not caring; he did that ultimately because he thought they'd be safer. And was proven wrong.

I'm not arguing that Goku is a good father, but I will note that a lot of the things you mentioned you did so by ignoring actual context and reason; you can argue that Goku sucks as a father without doing that. And at this point this doesn't even have anything to do with the abridged so why is this conversation still going on here.

edited 6th Jan '18 2:20:05 PM by LSBK

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#29106: Jan 6th 2018 at 2:18:22 PM

Uub is a Reincarnation. So he & Buu are very different people.

[up][up][up] Honestly Chi-Chi should do what most woman these days do & get a FUCKING JOB herself.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Ghilz Perpetually Confused from Yeeted at Relativistic Velocities Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Perpetually Confused
#29107: Jan 6th 2018 at 2:20:31 PM

Aren't they living off the Ox King's money?

AFAIK that's more an Abridged Series thing. Didn't the Ox King lose everything when Roshi exploded his castle/mountain with the Kamehameha

Arha Since: Jan, 2010
#29108: Jan 6th 2018 at 2:21:33 PM

Not many potential customers for that kind of thing in the countryside. And she may be getting a little old for that kind of thing.

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#29109: Jan 6th 2018 at 2:22:24 PM

Goku knows how to live in the wilderness. Presumably he should be able to take care of most of their needs and make a bit of a work out of it. I always thought that was the implication.

wanderlustwarrior Role Model from Where Gods Belong Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
Role Model
#29110: Jan 6th 2018 at 2:22:38 PM

Uub and Buu being different is true, but not much better.

Having been a Gohan-aged child of a working single mom, and knowing several single moms, I can tell you it's really fucking hard on everyone. If she gets a job, then Gohan goes unparented. Even at the time of the Saiyaman saga if she (or Gohan) were working while someone was supporting Goten, it'd be quite rough.

edited 6th Jan '18 2:23:12 PM by wanderlustwarrior

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#29111: Jan 6th 2018 at 2:33:40 PM

Uub is a genuinely kind young child.

Goku would be a bad person if he treated him bad based on who he used to be in another life.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Ghilz Perpetually Confused from Yeeted at Relativistic Velocities Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Perpetually Confused
#29112: Jan 6th 2018 at 2:34:02 PM

[up][up] Well the Ox-King is implied to live with them, so Gohan doesn't necessarily go unparented.

edited 6th Jan '18 2:34:10 PM by Ghilz

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#29113: Jan 6th 2018 at 2:49:16 PM

Honestly Chi-Chi should do what most woman these days do & get a FUCKING JOB herself.

It's difficult to hold down a stable job and raise a child at the same time. People do it, but the way you put it makes it sound like it's the easiest thing in the world, "Oh, she should just commute to the city to work eight-hour shifts somewhere while simultaneously being at the house cooking, cleaning, and raising her child/ren. Anyone else could do it; why does she have to be so lazy?"

Chi-Chi effectively has to be a single mom because of Goku's behavior, and her resentment over that is entirely justified.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#29114: Jan 6th 2018 at 2:53:06 PM

Is that even what Chi-chi is resentful over? Maybe in the abridged (which is appropriate), but if we're speaking about the series proper (which still seems off-topic but has been what we've mostly been doing) it seems like she's just upset about not having her perfect stereotypical family than anything else.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#29115: Jan 6th 2018 at 2:56:09 PM

She's the one who guilted a guy she barely knows into something he never considered or had much idea of what it is & expects a perfect fairy-tail marriage as a result despite her husband being the last guy you'd ever expect such a thing from.

I have no sympathy for her.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
wanderlustwarrior Role Model from Where Gods Belong Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
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#29116: Jan 6th 2018 at 2:58:24 PM

@slimcoder: I don't mean to state that Uub and Buu are the same in personality. I'm just saying that it's not miles better that Goku left his gamily to go work out with some random kid, instead of the guy who killed his family. The point is that he's leaving his family to go work out, and that's not unusual for him.

But I think all the post-Buu stuff is non-canon due to Super, so that particular point is moot unless you insist on only looking at DBZ.


[up]How old are you? How many female friends and family members do you have? And you know he could just say no, right? Even if it was a shotgun wedding, shotguns wouldn't do much to him.

[up][up]Is she even all that upset in canon? Not from what I remember, she just kind of rolls with near-single motherhood as best as can be expected (despite not being single).

edited 6th Jan '18 3:03:05 PM by wanderlustwarrior

Sigilbreaker26 Serial Procrastinator Since: Nov, 2017
Serial Procrastinator
#29117: Jan 6th 2018 at 3:00:02 PM

Well, considering that this is the series of events that takes place in Z:

  1. Her son is kidnapped
  2. Her husband is killed
  3. Her son is kidnapped (second time)
  4. Her husband returns from the grave and is hospitalised
  5. Her son goes into space
  6. Her husband goes into space
  7. Her husband goes AWOL for nearly two years
  8. When he returns him and her son have to train for three years
  9. Her husband nearly dies of a heart attack
  10. Her husband nearly gets her son killed in a match with a giant bug man
  11. Her husband dies (second time)
  12. Her sons get absorbed into a demonic abomination

For about 90% of this stuff Goku has been pretty damn flippant and all of it seems like stuff that would leave your nerves absolutely shot. I'm suprised she's staved off a total mental breakdown.

"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"
randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#29118: Jan 6th 2018 at 3:00:02 PM

Why does anyone in DB deserve sympathy?

There are few nice peeps...

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wanderlustwarrior Role Model from Where Gods Belong Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
Role Model
#29119: Jan 6th 2018 at 3:04:45 PM

[up]Just had an IRL conversation about DBZ fatherhood that touched on that. Objectively, the next-worst dad to Goku (assuming no one is mentally/physically abusing their kids offscreen) is either King Vegeta or Bardock. Most of the characters are actually pretty good people. Even most of the former villains repent. By the end of Z, most of the characters are pretty good people. Maybe not best-friend worthy, but at least as deserving of empathy as your average person, even if you don't take into account the stuff they did in adulthood to save the world from aliens and armies.

[up][up]You missed "she got killed", (which was in small part because of her husband's desire for a good fight with a rival who killed a lot of strangers right around her).

edited 6th Jan '18 3:09:12 PM by wanderlustwarrior

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#29120: Jan 6th 2018 at 3:06:18 PM

By the time Super rolls around, her biggest point of resentment is that the family's become shit-broke after the well that was her father's money dried up. In Super, Goku has to work as a farmer in order to pay the family's bills and uses the occasional financial windfall to bribe Chi-Chi into letting him go train.

"We just got a bunch of money! That means it's okay if I quit farming for a few months and train, right?"

Which is not at all how farming works but okay.

This is the fundamental problem of the Son household: Chi-Chi provides the caretaker role for the household, doing the cooking, cleaning, and raising of their children, while Goku...Goku relentlessly pursues his hobbies. The family doesn't have a provider.

edited 6th Jan '18 3:07:34 PM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Ghilz Perpetually Confused from Yeeted at Relativistic Velocities Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Perpetually Confused
#29121: Jan 6th 2018 at 3:07:50 PM

"We just got a bunch of money! That means it's okay if I quit farming for a few months and train, right?"

Which is not at all how farming works but okay.

I can totally picture that it's how Goku's understanding of Farming works.

wanderlustwarrior Role Model from Where Gods Belong Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
Role Model
#29122: Jan 6th 2018 at 3:11:48 PM

[up][up]Goku's a role model for some things. Dedication to goals, mainly. Enjoying what you do. But parenthood? Not at all.

The more that I think about it, Chi Chi is practically Supermom, though.

Eriorguez Since: Jun, 2009
#29123: Jan 6th 2018 at 3:12:57 PM

Chichi has always stuck me as being on the same boat as Goku in terms of priorities, relationships and, well, being a functional adult.

Gohan was already the adult at age 4.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#29124: Jan 6th 2018 at 3:13:03 PM

Chi-Chi getting herself offed by Super Buu is her own damn fault.

Even then Goku's fight with Majin Vegeta was more than just a good fight.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
LordVatek Not really a lord of anything Since: Sep, 2014
Not really a lord of anything
#29125: Jan 6th 2018 at 3:15:16 PM

I honestly can't work up any strong feelings towards Chi-Chi one way or another. As for Goku being a "bad father" I just ignore Super's characterization of him. I'm convinced that Toriyama just went overboard in trying to make him childish.

This song needs more love.

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