The list was the extent of what Goku was doing for Gohan (and Goten)'s time alive. If most of that has nothing to do with his son(s), that's proving the point. He spent at most 8 years with his firstborn son, and none with his second, despite having the power to do so.
Also, when someone killed or threatened to kill his son, his response was "let's see how my son fights first. If he loses, then I fight, Only if you fight dirty against me will I punish/kill you, even if you kill my son."
What the fuck, Goku?
Remember, I'm usually on the TFS and this thread takes the bad dad commentary too far... but he is canonically a bad dad.
Leaving aside that Chichi's clearly putting a lot of effort in educating Gohan that it leave their "Off the grid-ness" in question, they own both a cars (PLANES!) and T Vs.
"Living in the Countryside" is not "Off the grid"
I didn't know how long exactly the gap was between Buu and Uub, but the point is that he went... "This guy killed my sons? I'll spend time with my sons until he's strong enough to work out with, then I'll work out with him." That's some Norman Osborn fatherhood shit.
Aren't they living off the Ox King's money? Roshi, Krillin, and Tien (and every now and then Yamcha) are broke, but the Sons aren't. And even then, if anyone really needed it, Bulma (and eventually Hercule) could probably lend a hand. Also, Dragon Balls. They're not really in comparative lot of need, and they seem to have grown up that way (except Chi Chi).
edited 6th Jan '18 2:19:01 PM by wanderlustwarrior
I mean, when a bunch of bullshit gets in the way that stops "family time" what exactly do you expect to happen? Even staying dead and the like had reasons beyond not caring; he did that ultimately because he thought they'd be safer. And was proven wrong.
I'm not arguing that Goku is a good father, but I will note that a lot of the things you mentioned you did so by ignoring actual context and reason; you can argue that Goku sucks as a father without doing that. And at this point this doesn't even have anything to do with the abridged so why is this conversation still going on here.
edited 6th Jan '18 2:20:05 PM by LSBK
Uub and Buu being different is true, but not much better.
Having been a Gohan-aged child of a working single mom, and knowing several single moms, I can tell you it's really fucking hard on everyone. If she gets a job, then Gohan goes unparented. Even at the time of the Saiyaman saga if she (or Gohan) were working while someone was supporting Goten, it'd be quite rough.
edited 6th Jan '18 2:23:12 PM by wanderlustwarrior
It's difficult to hold down a stable job and raise a child at the same time. People do it, but the way you put it makes it sound like it's the easiest thing in the world, "Oh, she should just commute to the city to work eight-hour shifts somewhere while simultaneously being at the house cooking, cleaning, and raising her child/ren. Anyone else could do it; why does she have to be so lazy?"
Chi-Chi effectively has to be a single mom because of Goku's behavior, and her resentment over that is entirely justified.
My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.Is that even what Chi-chi is resentful over? Maybe in the abridged (which is appropriate), but if we're speaking about the series proper (which still seems off-topic but has been what we've mostly been doing) it seems like she's just upset about not having her perfect stereotypical family than anything else.
She's the one who guilted a guy she barely knows into something he never considered or had much idea of what it is & expects a perfect fairy-tail marriage as a result despite her husband being the last guy you'd ever expect such a thing from.
I have no sympathy for her.
"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."@slimcoder: I don't mean to state that Uub and Buu are the same in personality. I'm just saying that it's not miles better that Goku left his gamily to go work out with some random kid, instead of the guy who killed his family. The point is that he's leaving his family to go work out, and that's not unusual for him.
But I think all the post-Buu stuff is non-canon due to Super, so that particular point is moot unless you insist on only looking at DBZ.
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Is she even all that upset in canon? Not from what I remember, she just kind of rolls with near-single motherhood as best as can be expected (despite not being single).
edited 6th Jan '18 3:03:05 PM by wanderlustwarrior
Well, considering that this is the series of events that takes place in Z:
- Her son is kidnapped
- Her husband is killed
- Her son is kidnapped (second time)
- Her husband returns from the grave and is hospitalised
- Her son goes into space
- Her husband goes into space
- Her husband goes AWOL for nearly two years
- When he returns him and her son have to train for three years
- Her husband nearly dies of a heart attack
- Her husband nearly gets her son killed in a match with a giant bug man
- Her husband dies (second time)
- Her sons get absorbed into a demonic abomination
For about 90% of this stuff Goku has been pretty damn flippant and all of it seems like stuff that would leave your nerves absolutely shot. I'm suprised she's staved off a total mental breakdown.
"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"Why does anyone in DB deserve sympathy?
There are few nice peeps...
Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
Just had an IRL conversation about DBZ fatherhood that touched on that. Objectively, the next-worst dad to Goku (assuming no one is mentally/physically abusing their kids offscreen) is either King Vegeta or Bardock. Most of the characters are actually pretty good people. Even most of the former villains repent. By the end of Z, most of the characters are pretty good people. Maybe not best-friend worthy, but at least as deserving of empathy as your average person, even if you don't take into account the stuff they did in adulthood to save the world from aliens and armies.
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You missed "she got killed", (which was in small part because of her husband's desire for a good fight with a rival who killed a lot of strangers right around her).
edited 6th Jan '18 3:09:12 PM by wanderlustwarrior
By the time Super rolls around, her biggest point of resentment is that the family's become shit-broke after the well that was her father's money dried up. In Super, Goku has to work as a farmer in order to pay the family's bills and uses the occasional financial windfall to bribe Chi-Chi into letting him go train.
"We just got a bunch of money! That means it's okay if I quit farming for a few months and train, right?"
Which is not at all how farming works but okay.
This is the fundamental problem of the Son household: Chi-Chi provides the caretaker role for the household, doing the cooking, cleaning, and raising of their children, while Goku...Goku relentlessly pursues his hobbies. The family doesn't have a provider.
edited 6th Jan '18 3:07:34 PM by TobiasDrake
My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.I honestly can't work up any strong feelings towards Chi-Chi one way or another. As for Goku being a "bad father" I just ignore Super's characterization of him. I'm convinced that Toriyama just went overboard in trying to make him childish.
This song needs more love.

edited 6th Jan '18 2:13:41 PM by slimcoder
"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."