I mentioned King Kai.
Hmm... Buu only has one. Maybe only having dial-up might explain why he's so slow/angry.
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That is indeed why I said presumably Guru.
Hmm... Back before he struck out on his own, Vegeta must have watched a lot of Space Hulu. Maybe having to end his subscription when he and Nappa went to Earth is why he isn't familiar with Wheel of Death.
edited 29th Dec '17 7:24:53 PM by wanderlustwarrior
He might have been familiar. The line,
"What kind of sadistic retard watches this crap?!"
suggested to me that Vegeta knew about the show, he just thought it was dumb. Frieza may enjoy watching peons struggle and die from the comfort of his luxury throne, but Vegeta's only interested if he can get his hands dirty. A Saiyan warrior does not live vicariously through the violence of others!
My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.Huh, I had forgotten that In the Christmas Tree of Might, Santa made a reference to people shooting at his sleigh on Planet Vegeta.
Good Brick Joke TFS.
edited 5th Jan '18 5:13:26 PM by Ghilz
Wow. Dragon Ball Super pretty much puts all the "Is Goku a Bad Father?" arguments to bed with this exchange from chapter 27.
- Goku: Vegeta? Why are you leaving [from training]?
- Vegeta: Can't you tell by looking at Bulma? She's gonna give birth any day now and I need to stay with her.
- Goku: Why? You're not the one giving birth.
- Vegeta: How stupid are you?! If I leave to go train now, she'll never forgive me!
- Goku: Why do you care? Look at me. I don't even know when Gohan and Goten were born.
- Vegeta: ...you may not be a bad person, but you're a horrible father.
Yeah, just like that, every Bad Dad joke TFS has ever made about Goku is completely vindicated.
edited 6th Jan '18 10:40:24 AM by TobiasDrake
My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.I wish they hadn't done that.
That was in the anime as well, which means it's from Toriyama's notes. Considering he said that Goku sees his family more as close comrades than...well family, it's not a shock.
He really, really went overboard with his belief of how Goku should be didn't he?
I wonder if this is the reason why one of the Team Four Star members (I can't remember who, but I think it was Kaiser) said that he regrets perpetuating the Goku is a shitty dad meme. It becomes a lot less funny (and it was already starting to become not so funny) when it's made canon.
One Strip! One Strip!Goku seeing his family as comrades is pretty consistent with his character. I'm more alarmed by an earlier scene, in which Goku sees Trunks kissing his girlfriend and responds with shock and revulsion, demanding to know why Trunks would do something so gross.
That kinda throws more fuel onto the "Is Chi-Chi a rapist?" fire.
EDIT: Basically, Goku is pretty consistently presented as an asexual person who neither understands nor cares overmuch about the responsibilities of family and sees his spouse and children as peers like Tien and Krillin, which is a character choice that makes sense for him but really makes it uncomfortable that the choice to give him a wife and children was even made in the first place.
edited 6th Jan '18 10:58:53 AM by TobiasDrake
My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.I mean, it's not like they really spread it. Goku has two pretty big noticable not-dad-of-the-year-material moments in Z (not coming home immediately after learning instant transmission and giving Cell the senzu bean). It's not a totally unfair assumption to go to.
What Super does is just flanderize Goku and dial some dodgy moments up to 11.
"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"![]()
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Yeah, I'm going through Super now, and just got past that scene. It was just so off the wall crazy that Goku apparently didn't even know what kissing was. Hilarious, but it really makes you see the character in a new (bad) light.
No wonder Chi-Chi went sorta crazy herself, considering just what she's putting up with.
edited 6th Jan '18 11:03:05 AM by Kayeka
Goku has always, canonically, been far more interested in training than in fatherhood. Also slightly asexual. Compare his canon lack of understanding and interest from Dragon Ball through the pre-Buu tournament, to how Bulma and Krillin matured and progressed, despite his marrying and becoming a father a decade before either of them.
He doesn't know about kissing? Turns out that's something Sasuke has in common with him more than Naruto...
edited 6th Jan '18 11:05:42 AM by wanderlustwarrior
I have no sympathy for Chi-Chi on the grounds that she did this to herself. Krillin had to explain to Goku what marriage even was, which he explained in Goku Terms to the effect of, "Basically, you live in the same house."
Their entire marriage is 100% Chi-Chi's fault.
My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.By the time Super rolls around, Vegeta has an advantage in that regard and that advantage is that, historically, he's been a goddamn shit-heel.
Goku starts out as a relatively decent person and remains so throughout the series, never growing or changing or developing in any way. His skills develop, he learns new talents, but he never changes. By the end of the series, he is the exact same person he was when he started. He's a Static Character in that regard.
Vegeta, on the other hand, starts out as a planet-killing monster. He's forced to grow and change and develop as his role shifts to a more antiheroic and then outright heroic light. By the time Super comes around, he has grown massively as a person in a variety of regards.
Piccolo benefits from the same "used to be a giant shit-heel and had to undergo a ton of Character Development and now might actually be better than Goku as a person because of it" dynamic. Goku's always been good and thus his goodness is complacent, while the reformed villains in his cast have had to learn how to be good and thus have a better grasp on what it means.
edited 6th Jan '18 11:12:44 AM by TobiasDrake
My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.![]()
Probably because Vegeta actually has some mental capacity to understand concepts like "fatherhood" and "relationships", though his upbringing didn't do him any favours on those fronts.
Goku is just... stupid. Like, really stupid. He's like a toddler with the power of an angry deity.
In Super, that is. I never watched original Dragonball, and I'm a bit vague on the details of Z.
edited 6th Jan '18 11:11:52 AM by Kayeka
To be fair, I never really saw there being love in the relationship between Goku and Chichi to begin with. Chichi demanded that he marry her because he touched her crotch when they were kids and she came back to fulfill his 'promise' to do so. Goku agreed because he had nothing better to do. That's it.
Goku has always been most interested in training than anything else, but when he married Chichi he stopped going of on training expeditions and thus has no plausible excuse to not even know when Gohan was born. That's just ridiculous.
And I agree with Tobias on why Vegeta (and Piccolo) come out looking better compared to Goku, because they started in such shitty places to begin with. Vegeta has to be dragged to spent basically any time with his family, and when he does go he's almost entirely standing or sitting around not actually participating with them. Most of his time is spent training alone. By any sane definition he'd be a terrible spouse and father, but because people see where he started they go "awwww, look how much he's changed" (which he has), and confuse that with him actually being good or even decent in these roles.
Goku at the very least does actually seem to enjoy being around his family, even if there is something else he'd rather be doing.
edited 6th Jan '18 11:35:49 AM by LSBK
Well, Vegeta doesn't enjoy doing those sorts of things but he is there for them. I don't really see that as being a particularly poor parent; he just acts like the dad who's at a One Direction concert most of the time when they're out, true, but that's about it.
Piccolo is this taken up to eleven. Ever since he nicked Gohan he basically reformed himself and isn't even particularly grumpy most of the time. Heck, he's probably the most flat out morally good person on the team by now.
It helps that they're more or less consistent with how they act, in that aside from the whole Majin Vegeta thing both of them never really got worse at any point, while in the Cell Saga Goku's dad points dropped a fair bit and by Super he's been totally flanderized.
edited 6th Jan '18 11:40:09 AM by Sigilbreaker26
"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"

A little late, but at least Shenron got to give a kid ice cream. The kid was a grown-ass adult he turned into a kid, but still.