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Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#2851: Jan 30th 2013 at 2:45:10 AM

That's because he was trying to stall out the fusion. Which as I mentioned, he almost succeeded in.

Enlong Court Dragon from The Underground Facility Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
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#2852: Jan 30th 2013 at 6:53:13 AM

I thought he did succeed,a nd realized he'd won when Piccolo's cape-thing popped out of Buu.

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Medigo0 Since: Jun, 2012
#2853: Jan 30th 2013 at 11:35:15 AM

That was after Goku appeared though, while Gohan was busy looking for an earring. Gohan could have defeated the unfused form yes, but it didnt matter since he got absorbed afterwards.

Though yes Gohan was trying to buy time once he realized he could not win in a fight. But he could not hide from Buu or get away.

wanderlustwarrior Role Model from Where Gods Belong Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
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#2854: Jan 30th 2013 at 11:46:33 AM

So... why did Goku and Gohan decide to fuse, again?

Enlong Court Dragon from The Underground Facility Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
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#2855: Jan 30th 2013 at 12:06:40 PM

Neither could beat Buu alone or as a two-man team. Fusing was their best option. However, when Gotenks divided inside Buu, he became weak enough that it wasn't needed. Then Buu absorbed Gohan, and everything fell to pieces.

I have a message from another time...
wanderlustwarrior Role Model from Where Gods Belong Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
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#2856: Jan 30th 2013 at 12:09:55 PM

Should be more specific: why did they still try to fuse and not both understand they could stall until time was up?

Also, that makes Gotenks sound.ridiculously strong.

Medigo0 Since: Jun, 2012
#2857: Jan 30th 2013 at 12:14:28 PM

Buu had about 10 more minutes of fusing time left, but he was about to blow up the planet so its not like Goku could have chosen the dick-option of just waiting for the 10 minutes to pass. (letting Gohan die, the earth blow up, and wishing all back later. though thats what happened anyway)

Heck Goku wouldnt even be able to beat Picollo-Buu on his own either (regardless of what the anime implied)

though he might have been able to teleport Gohan to a safe distance and wait on Kais planet I guess

edited 30th Jan '13 12:15:33 PM by Medigo0

Medigo0 Since: Jun, 2012
#2858: Jan 30th 2013 at 12:16:37 PM

oh and its genuinely assumed Gotenks was at least regular Super Buu's equal. So the Gotenks Buu was at least double as strong as his regular form.

edited 30th Jan '13 12:16:44 PM by Medigo0

theLibrarian Since: Jul, 2009
#2859: Jan 30th 2013 at 12:18:56 PM

Considering the final arc of GT I'm actually kind of glad that them using the Dragon Balls to fix all of their problems finally came back to bite them.

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#2860: Jan 30th 2013 at 12:27:11 PM

Fusion saga:

Bee < Dende < Tien < Goten ~= Trunks < Piccolo < Vegeta < Gotenks = Super Buu (Base) < Goku < Super Buu (Piccolo Absorbed) < Gohan < Super Buu (Gotenks Absorbed) < Super Buu (Gohan Absorbed) < Vegito <<<<<< Mr. Satan

I think Goku is a bit stronger than Gotenks and therefore probably a little bit stronger than base form Super Buu? He was a little bit stronger than Fat Buu and Fat Buu is the same strength as Super Buu (Just less ruthless).

edited 30th Jan '13 12:33:13 PM by Anomalocaris20

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
Medigo0 Since: Jun, 2012
#2861: Jan 30th 2013 at 12:47:34 PM

I'd say its debatable whether or not Goku was stronger than Base Super Buu. Considering he was affraid to go out there and face him without fusion. (When he was inside him, I mean)

Also Goku didnt plan on Gotenks needing SSJ 3 to beat Fat Buu. (he didnt plan on Super Buu either, so SSJ 3 Gotenks was a lucky consequence)

I cant see SSJ Gotenks being weaker than SSJ Goku for that reason. (Probably weaker than SSJ 3 Goku, who admits he could have beaten Fat Buu)

And lets not even bring Kid Buu into this equation.

edited 30th Jan '13 12:48:22 PM by Medigo0

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#2862: Jan 30th 2013 at 12:54:52 PM

Was he afraid to go out and face him because he had no idea how much Buu's power would have dropped? Or because he was unfamiliar with Super Buu? I'd say he's weaker than Super Buu and Gotenks, but then that would mean he's weaker than the first Fat Buu, since Fat Buu and Super Buu are the same thing just rearranged...

Maybe Fat Buu is stronger than Goku but his childishness and semi-pacifism means Goku could beat him despite being weaker?

Kid Buu is easy. He's weaker than Super/Fat Buu and Gotenks but stronger than Vegeta. Bear in mind the Supreme Kai's remark that Kid Buu is more powerful and absorbing the Grand Supreme Kai weakened him is a mistranslation. The proper word is "tamed". Fat Buu is more powerful than Kid Buu, he's just too silly and friendly to be as dangerous.

edited 30th Jan '13 12:59:14 PM by Anomalocaris20

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
Lionheart0 Since: Oct, 2009 Relationship Status: I'm just a hunk-a, hunk-a burnin' love
#2863: Jan 30th 2013 at 1:19:00 PM

Should be more specific: why did they still try to fuse and not both understand they could stall until time was up? Also, that makes Gotenks sound.ridiculously strong.

Not sure about the Manga, but in the anime, Goku did acknowledge that they didn't need to fuse anymore. By that point though Buu had already laid his plans into motion and absorbed Gohan shortly afterwards.

theweirdKiddokun What a Wonderful World! from Last Place in the Race Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
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#2864: Jan 30th 2013 at 2:04:28 PM

[up][up]To answer that question.

They really are. Raditz is the prefect example why. Even Ultimate Super Sayian Trunks is a better example. He was stronger than Cell, but he was not faster. So Cell could hit and run at his base level.

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Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#2865: Jan 30th 2013 at 3:04:28 PM

No, Fat Boo and Super Boo are not the same thing rearranged. Super Boo is much stronger, his ki is described as being "completely different". Kid Boo is not weaker than Fat Boo, because Fat Boo's power is explicitly lowered from absorbing the Dai Kaioshin. That isn't a mistranslation, Anom. That's what it says in the Japanese manga.

Everything in the manga points to Gotenks being stronger than Goku, especially since Goku was terrified of fighting Super Boo (he flat out states that he'll get killed if he fights him without fusing) and had so much faith in Gotenks.

Gotenks + Super Boo = A Boo that's twice as strong as before. That's why he was so powerful compared to Gohan. And Gohan did a damn good job stalling, considering he lasted nearly the full 30 minutes.

If Goku couldn't beat Piccolo-Boo, there's no way he could beat Super Boo. There would be next to no difference in Boo's power from absorbing Piccolo and the kids.

@Wander Gohan was trying to stall out the fusion but using potara was an instant solution. Also Goku neglected to mention that it was permanent so Gohan wouldn't have seen any reason not to.

Oh yeah and I disagree about putting Piccolo above Goten and Trunks, I think with Super Saiyan the boys are stronger (they power up and it freaks Piccolo out).

edited 30th Jan '13 3:05:58 PM by Saiga

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#2866: Jan 30th 2013 at 3:06:53 PM

Huh, thanks for clarifying.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#2867: Jan 30th 2013 at 3:08:40 PM

No problem. On topic, I only recently noticed how they sort of switch back and forth between dub terms and the original. "Tien" vs "Tenshinhan" or "Destructo Disc" vs "Kienzan". I wonder what's up with that?

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#2868: Jan 30th 2013 at 3:13:08 PM

Sorry for being so unknowledgeable. tongue

I normally use the former dub names for most things, but "Destructo Disk" is such an awful and lame name that I tend to use "Kienzan"

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
Lionheart0 Since: Oct, 2009 Relationship Status: I'm just a hunk-a, hunk-a burnin' love
#2869: Jan 30th 2013 at 3:24:04 PM

Oh yeah and I disagree about putting Piccolo above Goten and Trunks, I think with Super Saiyan the boys are stronger (they power up and it freaks Piccolo out).

Goten and Trunks both went back to base form though if I'm not mistaken, which is why Piccolo became the "dominant form."

edited 30th Jan '13 3:24:36 PM by Lionheart0

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#2870: Jan 30th 2013 at 3:31:52 PM

[up][up]No, it's fine. A lot of what you said is widely held fanon.

And I agree on the Kienzan. It's the same with the Mankankosappo or the Kikoho. I think everything else I use the dub name for.

[up]The dominant fusee might not really be the strongest. After all, South Kaioshin was stated to be the strongest Kaioshin and yet Dai Kaioshin had a greater influence on Boo.

edited 30th Jan '13 3:37:27 PM by Saiga

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#2871: Jan 30th 2013 at 3:55:56 PM

Which moves are the Mankankosappo and Kikoho, again?

And maybe the South Kaioshin was just the strongest of the four subordinate Kaioshins, and Dai Kaio was stronger?.

edited 30th Jan '13 3:57:11 PM by Anomalocaris20

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#2872: Jan 30th 2013 at 3:58:15 PM

Special Beam Cannon and Tri-Beam.

And that's possible but East Kaioshin's wording doesn't really imply that. He says "of all the Kaioshin" and Dai Kaioshin is still a Kaioshin while being more than that.

What I find interesting is that Piccolo isn't exactly the dominant influence after the fusion. He's got Piccolo's cape, yes, but he still has the more human features and fingers along with the longer tentacle that presumably come from the boys. I say this because later when Goku/Vegeta remove everyone but save Piccolo for last, we see a shot of Boo with only Piccolo absorbed and he's got Piccolo's purple clothes and his normal, less humanlike features (uglier face, less fingers, etc).

edited 30th Jan '13 4:00:34 PM by Saiga

unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#2873: Jan 30th 2013 at 3:59:07 PM

...Does "strongest" have to mean "most powerful"? I mean, there is Arale to consider.

EDIT: Also, on the subject of Arale: General Blue Saga. Original Dragon Ball. Manga and Anime. Canon.

edited 30th Jan '13 4:00:45 PM by unnoun

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#2874: Jan 30th 2013 at 4:00:52 PM

Yes, it does.

Arale is from a different series. Well, the powerful one I mean. The penguin village and Arale in Dragon Ball aren't the same ones from Dr. Slump.

edited 30th Jan '13 4:01:33 PM by Saiga

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#2875: Jan 30th 2013 at 4:01:08 PM

I actually like "special beam cannon" if only for the Abridged exchange between Nail and Piccolo. "Last I checked, cannons don't drill things." "That's what makes it special!" So I still prefer to use that, plus its silliness kinda makes it cool.

Tri-beam is cool sounding, but it sorta confuses me how it's diamond-shaped...

And I assumed Piccolo-dominant Buu looking different was just inconsistency rather than a result of the kids.

edited 30th Jan '13 4:02:49 PM by Anomalocaris20

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!

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