TVTropes Now available in the app store!
Open

Follow TV Tropes

Following

Dragon Ball Z Abridged

Go To

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#28676: Oct 12th 2017 at 12:08:08 PM

Trunks absolutely has no way of knowing how powerful the Androids are. He can know that they were holding back, sure, by gauging their behavior. But their battle powers can't be sensed, so there is literally no way for Trunks to have any idea what their max is unless he's actually fought them at it.

edited 12th Oct '17 12:08:22 PM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#28677: Oct 12th 2017 at 12:39:49 PM

Also, Trunks being inexperienced as a martial artist is kind of a plot point when Cell scolds him for using Super Saiyan Grade 3, saying that even Vegeta probably knew about the form, he just never used it because he knows better. Krillin easily being able to tell that Trunks and Cell are holding back is even used to contrast their levels of experience.

edited 12th Oct '17 12:41:13 PM by PushoverMediaCritic

Zelenal The Cat Knows Where It's At from Purrgatory Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
The Cat Knows Where It's At
#28678: Oct 12th 2017 at 2:03:54 PM

One thing I really need to point out about Piccolo's "training" on Kaiou's world is that he was only there for about six days. Any gains he might have made would be basically nonexistent.

Let the joy of love give you an answer! Check out my book!
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#28679: Oct 12th 2017 at 2:07:48 PM

And as far as I'm aware, he didn't really seem to be doing anything.

Maybe it was just Piccolo being a cocky asshole. It wouldn't be the first time.

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#28680: Oct 12th 2017 at 2:27:15 PM

He basically considered Kaio's training to be beneath him.

To be fair, chasing monkey around (and also trying to hit an giant insect with a hammer) do seem pretty dumb.

I'm wondering if they bothered chasing Bubbles in the manga at all. Whatever the case, Piccolo very definitely didn't accomplish much while with King Kai.

One Strip! One Strip!
WillKeaton from Alberta, Canada Since: Jun, 2010
#28681: Oct 12th 2017 at 2:29:47 PM

I don't know if it was filler, but Piccolo caught Bubbles effortlessly, and King Kai was like "you know that task wasn't meant for you" apparently because at that point in time Piccolo was so strong that even King Kai thought the training really was beneath him?

edited 12th Oct '17 2:30:12 PM by WillKeaton

SonOfSharknado Love is Love is Love Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Love is Love is Love
#28682: Oct 12th 2017 at 2:31:10 PM

I mean, unless dying made him as strong as Goku was when he came back to fight Vegeta, that's bullshit.

My various fanfics.
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#28683: Oct 12th 2017 at 2:32:36 PM

I mean, not even just Piccolo but all the others were already way stronger than Goku when he first made it to King Kai. Any of them having trouble catching Bubbles seems like a stretch to me, but especially Piccolo.

SonOfSharknado Love is Love is Love Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Love is Love is Love
#28684: Oct 12th 2017 at 3:28:45 PM

Not the bubbles part, just the idea that the training in general was beneath him.

My various fanfics.
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#28685: Oct 12th 2017 at 5:14:01 PM

The Bubbles part is filler, IIRC. The others making it to Kaio-sama's faster than Goku is not, and that part makes perfect sense because they were more powerful than he was when he died.

Goku made the journey with a battle power of 416. The weakest among the humans making the trip was Chiaotzu with 610. Piccolo's 3,500 blows them all out of the water and as such, I would call it entirely believable that he could catch Bubbles right off the bat. Goku received more training past that point, after all; he didn't spend the entire year chasing Bubbles.

edited 12th Oct '17 5:14:53 PM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#28686: Oct 12th 2017 at 5:14:40 PM

I don't remember if the manga ever gave a timeline for when the Humans and Piccolo started training with Kaio, so it could've been anywhere from 6 days to 51. Considering Goku made the journey in one day in a hurry, it's not impossible to say that the Humans and Piccolo could've made the trip to Kaio's planet in about a week.

Also, Piccolo may have been meditating, but he was meditating while hovering while wearing weighted clothing in ten times Earth's gravity.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#28687: Oct 12th 2017 at 5:21:30 PM

While Goku is in transit to planet Namek, Kaio-sama contacts him to let him know that Tien, Yamcha, Chiaotzu, and Piccolo just arrived. Piccolo was on Kaio-sama's planet for less than six days.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#28688: Oct 12th 2017 at 5:28:43 PM

Huh. I must've forgotten that part.

Ghilz Perpetually Confused from Yeeted at Relativistic Velocities Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Perpetually Confused
#28689: Oct 12th 2017 at 5:34:35 PM

It's also possible the guys didn't set off right away either though. Goku had no plan to go to Namek till he learned about Vegeta and Frieza being there. It's entirely possible the others were only allowed to go see King Kai (Which, Remember, King Yamma had to approve) after the threat on Namek became apparent.

edited 12th Oct '17 5:35:02 PM by Ghilz

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#28690: Oct 12th 2017 at 5:39:09 PM

No, the threat on Namek wasn't apparent until they were already there. Kaio-sama only learns that they might run into Frieza because Goku happens to mention during the aforementioned call that the others ran into a threat stronger than Vegeta. He scans Namek to verify Goku's allegations and is horrified to discover Frieza's presence.

However, it is likely that they didn't set out right away. They mention during the call that they ran into God in the afterlife and he recommended this course of action to them. God also reconstructed Chiaotzu's body for him, since it blew into ludicrous gibs.

EDIT: This is around the time Vegeta fights Zarbon for the first time, for time reference.

edited 12th Oct '17 5:41:34 PM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#28691: Oct 12th 2017 at 10:25:46 PM

Why even bother?

Even if they could have received as much training as Goku did, at the time, they had no way to get to Namek (since it would have needed two wishes, and they couldn't wish back Chiaotzu) and would have been zero help even if they did.

Though to be fair, they didn't know that, nor were they aware that the Namekian balls gave more than one wish.

Come to think of it, what purpose was there in sending those guys to King Kai beyond providing a way to keep Piccolo in the loop so he could send himself to Namek?

One Strip! One Strip!
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#28692: Oct 12th 2017 at 10:44:25 PM

God sent them there so that they could train and get stronger, because that's what they do. These characters don't really need a reason to seek new forms of training.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Zarastro Since: Sep, 2010
#28693: Oct 13th 2017 at 9:44:48 AM

[up] At this point of the story Tien and Piccolo could still hope to one day catch up to Goku as an extra incentive (before the SSJ-Transformation made this utterly hopeless). And it is not like they did not earn their training session(even Piccolo) with their past deeds.

Btw. was it ever explained why none of the human fighters learned the Kaioken?

edited 13th Oct '17 9:45:09 AM by Zarastro

Zelenal The Cat Knows Where It's At from Purrgatory Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
The Cat Knows Where It's At
#28694: Oct 13th 2017 at 10:07:35 AM

It took Goku about half a year to master the Kaiouken. Most of the humans were only on Kaiou's world for about three months.

Let the joy of love give you an answer! Check out my book!
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#28695: Oct 13th 2017 at 10:09:08 AM

Also, I wouldn't be surprised if they just weren't good enough to master it. King Kai invented it and even he couldn't master it completely.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#28696: Oct 13th 2017 at 11:27:39 AM

At this point of the story Tien and Piccolo could still hope to one day catch up to Goku as an extra incentive (before the SSJ-Transformation made this utterly hopeless). And it is not like they did not earn their training session(even Piccolo) with their past deeds.

To be fair, Piccolo kept up until well into the Cell arc. Courtesy of Namekian Fusion, he could handle Super Saiyans. It was the advanced forms of Super Saiyan that left him in the dust.

Also, I wouldn't be surprised if they just weren't good enough to master it. King Kai invented it and even he couldn't master it completely.

This. Goku's the only person who's ever mastered the Kaioken, so far as we know. Like, ever. Including Kaio-sama.

I know we're all used to anime being like, "Well, yeah, it was special, but then he achieved it. So it's not special anymore. Now anyone with five seconds to spare should be able to learn it while texting their mom." But in this case, it didn't.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
fredhot16 Don't want to leave but cannot pretend from Baton Rogue, Louisiana. Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: Too sexy for my shirt
Don't want to leave but cannot pretend
#28697: Oct 13th 2017 at 4:05:12 PM

[up]It is bizarre that he's the only one who uses the Kaioken.

Wouldn't everybody else want a temporary boost that would multiply your power by two or four?

How hard could it have been to teach Gohan or Piccolo during the three year interlude before the Androids came?

edited 13th Oct '17 4:07:22 PM by fredhot16

Trans rights are human rights. TV Tropes is not a place for bigotry, cruelty, or dickishness, no matter who or their position.
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#28698: Oct 13th 2017 at 4:26:10 PM

Piccolo's the only one who could really get much use out of it. The humans are so outclassed that the Kaioken wouldn't even make the slightest bit of difference and the Saiyans have Super Saiyan transformations. Even the standard x50 multiplier of the ordinary Super Saiyan form blows the Kaioken right out of the f*cking water.

Piccolo, however, manages to keep up with Super Saiyans without a multiplier for a good, long while. Being able to stack multipliers of x2 through x20 on him could easily have kept him competitive.

A Piccolo who is roughly as powerful as Goku in his base Super Saiyan form using the x10 Kaioken would be more powerful than Goku as a Super Saiyan 3.

x20 has only ever shown to be feasible in extremely short bursts, but at that level of power, you really only need a short burst.

edited 13th Oct '17 4:27:53 PM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
wanderlustwarrior Role Model from Where Gods Belong Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
Role Model
#28699: Oct 13th 2017 at 4:27:21 PM

And then by the time of Super we're just supposed to believe that Piccolo and Android 17 aren't too far behind Blue-per Saiyans...

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#28700: Oct 13th 2017 at 4:28:49 PM

Anime or manga?

The anime's never gotten the battle powers right. I know Super's being made anime first with manga to follow, but that doesn't change the fact that the anime's being made by Toei.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.

Total posts: 40,340
Top