Once again, I freely admit that I never watched the show, but just from reading a plot synopsis and playing a few video games, I get the impression that the story and character got a lot worse after the Frieza Saga, starting with the introduction of a blatant Marty Stu.
Funny episode regardless. But unfortunately very short, though I can see how it would take a lot of effort to make an episode.
...Trunks is very much not a Marty Stu. This is the only time he'll act anything like one, and then he'll go on to show his flaws and inexperience.
And I disagree about things getting worse after this point, though I'm not sure what made you feel that way.
edited 28th Jan '13 10:15:34 PM by Saiga
Eh, Trunks isn't that bad. Once Goku returns he reasserts himself as the dominant force anyway. And Trunks is pretty popular too.
It's the Buu saga that many people feel is when it took a turn for the worse. But even that has its fans, and it had some of the best battles too, such as Goku vs. Majin Vegeta or Ultimate Gohan vs. Super Buu.
You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!![]()
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Trunks is about the furthest thing from a Marty Stu. Yeah, he shows up the pwn Frieza, but that was more to demonstrate how much dangerous the future threat of the Androids was.
edited 28th Jan '13 10:17:17 PM by Lionheart0
Oh, the Cell Arc has plenty of people crying Ruined FOREVER as well. Not as much as the Boo Arc (which is my favourite, actually), but yeah.
That's how the whole "Toriyama wanted to end the series at Freeza" rumour started.
Buu arc is my personal favorite too, actually. Specifically the Fusion Saga (Super Buu is my favorite villain of the franchise, Ultimate Gohan was really cool while it lasted, Vegito was cool and a candy, and the whole inside-Buu was pretty funny even though I'm normally somewhat adverse to FantasticVoyagePlots.).
edited 28th Jan '13 10:22:02 PM by Anomalocaris20
You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!Yeah, my main complaint is that only the saiyans got to do anything, and within that that Goku was sort of forced. I don't really mind him getting the kill on Buu at the end, but it disappoints me that Gohan literally did nothing for the rest of the series after losing to Super Buu (Gotenks Absorbed).
You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!No, but they had to resurrect everyone to fuel the Spirit Bomb. Gohan was brought back with everyone else, they should have just thought "Hey, let's resurrect the Earth and Gohan so he can come here and kick Boo's ass"
Yes, the Spirit Bomb was an awesome finale, but it is also an Idiot Plot, because it requires them overlooking a simpler solution.
If I may offer an opinion, it wasn't just to highlight the threat of the Androids. You have to remember that Future Trunks went through a lot of hell to get as tough and good at fighting as he was at that time and he even managed to become a Super Saiyan at the cost of Gohan's life. And considering that Future 17 & 18 were more powerful than Frieza and his dad (Albeit less powerful than the present counterparts), it was nothing more than a cakewalk to him compared to what happened to him.
Either way and time, Frieza and Lord Cold were screwed.
Well, AT didn't have to do that. He wanted Goku in the spotlight, which is why he nerfed Boo in the first place.
If Gohan was going to be the hero having him defeat Gotenks-Boo by stalling out the fusion would've been a good, climatic end.
Just like to clear up that manga Trunks didn't go Super Saiyan over Trunks' death, he already was at a young age like Present Trunks. It's a minor thing but it really foreshadowed Goten and Trunks' transformations.
edited 28th Jan '13 10:46:32 PM by Saiga
I think the real problem with the Trunks scene is that it kinda undermines the entire previous arc.
"Frieza is back! OH GOD SHIT JUST GOT REAL!" And then he just got one-shotted by a character we've never met before. That's part of the issue with Dragonball's absurd power creep; it makes the previous battles feel kinda cheapened.
(Also, Trunks is Kyle Reese.)
edited 28th Jan '13 10:49:08 PM by Scardoll
Fight. Struggle. Endure. Suffer. LIVE.![]()
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In the Buu Saga, Buu's about to destroy the Earth. Goku instant transmissions himself, Vegeta, and Hercule, but... he sorta leaves Gohan/Goten/Trunks/Piccolo/Tien unconscious on the ground.
Also, the Buu saga honestly felt like some sort of self-parody. Compared to all the previous arcs, there's a ton more silliness and comedy scenes. I'm sure some people were annoyed by that but it's not too terrible. Toriyama was probably getting burnt out by that point anyway. Heck, if you read it, this part is probably the one with the most deformed or off-model characters (Videl is crosseyed in almost half her panels).
EDIT: Figured I might mention this as well, they're rereleasing the Saiyan Saga books
◊ in colour in February.
edited 29th Jan '13 1:18:58 AM by hass
Nah, you can tell when Toriyama's doing self parody. Like in Neko Majin Z. The Boo saga is a result of Toriyama having a lenient editor and borrowing from the earlier parts of the manga (the general silliness).
Whoops. Should have been clearer. I meant within the context of this series, the Abridged one. Going back to Cold's only spoken line in 30 though, there actually isn't that much difference. I could have sworn that he was a lot higher pitch than that, almost to the level of sounding feminine. Don't get me wrong, he still comes off as dandy, but now at least I can't confuse his voice for a woman's.

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