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Lionheart0 Since: Oct, 2009 Relationship Status: I'm just a hunk-a, hunk-a burnin' love
#27576: Jun 23rd 2017 at 6:02:24 PM

Didn't Piccolo's entire point boil down to Gohan not being the same as Goku when it comes to fighting?

There's two things though 1) Gohan was literally the only one strong enough to defeat Cell and 2) TFS went out of their way to omit the scene where Goku admits that he knows Gohan doesn't want to be a fighter, but a scholar.

The problem with the "Goku is a Bad Father" meme, and the way TFS goes about perpetuating the joke, is it ignores the actual context within the series. Goku's faults as a father isn't because he spends all of his free time off planet or training or that he doesn't care about putting his son's in dangerous situations, it's that he treats Gohan (and to a lesser degree Goten much later on) like he has the agency of an adult.

edited 23rd Jun '17 6:03:39 PM by Lionheart0

Prime_of_Perfection Where force fails, cunning prevails Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Where force fails, cunning prevails
#27577: Jun 23rd 2017 at 6:04:55 PM

[up][up][up] Cracked up at that, more so with how Goku sees it as just a fight and ultimately won't give Cell what he wants. [lol]J

edited 23rd Jun '17 6:05:54 PM by Prime_of_Perfection

Improving as an author, one video at a time.
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#27578: Jun 23rd 2017 at 6:06:04 PM

[up][up]And that can largely be attributed to the way Goku himself grew up, and Gohan's life prior to all of this. Still not an excuse, but context does matter.

Less seriously, yes, the way they're handling Cell and the way he views all of this is entertaining. It's the continuation of him making everything sexual, but now it's less rapey.

edited 23rd Jun '17 6:07:12 PM by LSBK

SonOfSharknado Love is Love is Love Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Love is Love is Love
#27579: Jun 23rd 2017 at 6:06:19 PM

I wash my hands of this series.

My various fanfics.
Ssj3Gojira Arashi Shigehito from The Event Horizon Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Arashi Shigehito
#27580: Jun 23rd 2017 at 6:07:18 PM

Which boils down to how that meme doesn't make sense, since he was there for most of his son's life, spent an entire year bonding with him in the Hyperbolic Time Chamber, supports his son's dreams, and has died twice in order to save Gohan's life. Yes, this clearly makes him a bad parent.

Let's see if you can get past my Beelzemon. Mephiles, WARP SHINKA!
SonOfSharknado Love is Love is Love Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Love is Love is Love
#27581: Jun 23rd 2017 at 6:09:36 PM

Meanwhile Piccolo abandoned Gohan in the woods for months, beat the shit out of him for several more months, and basically never interacted with him for seven years despite being alive and perfectly able to see him.

WHAT A GREAT DAD.

My various fanfics.
Lionheart0 Since: Oct, 2009 Relationship Status: I'm just a hunk-a, hunk-a burnin' love
#27582: Jun 23rd 2017 at 6:10:23 PM

But yeah, on a lighter note, I like how Cell essentially treated Goku giving up like he pulled out before reaching climax. tongue

edited 23rd Jun '17 6:10:42 PM by Lionheart0

Ssj3Gojira Arashi Shigehito from The Event Horizon Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Arashi Shigehito
#27583: Jun 23rd 2017 at 6:12:25 PM

[up][up] Honestly, Piccolo is probably a big brother figure at this point; why else would he and Videl refer to him as "Uncle Piccolo" to Pan?

Let's see if you can get past my Beelzemon. Mephiles, WARP SHINKA!
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#27584: Jun 23rd 2017 at 6:12:27 PM

So, have they said anything else about whether ep 60 is going to be a three part finale like the other seasons or not? I recall there was issue about fitting everything in, an that does seem like it could be an issue at this point.

randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#27585: Jun 23rd 2017 at 6:16:10 PM

[up][up]He's only a few years older, so...big brother fits him nicely.

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
Lionheart0 Since: Oct, 2009 Relationship Status: I'm just a hunk-a, hunk-a burnin' love
#27586: Jun 23rd 2017 at 6:16:19 PM

[up][up] It's going beyond 60 episodes. Lani originally wanted to end it there but that would have resulted in these past few episodes being ridiculously long. Kaiser also said that episode 60 will be on the shorter side.

edited 23rd Jun '17 6:16:33 PM by Lionheart0

IniuriaTalis Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: Love, football, the arts, the occasional pint
#27587: Jun 23rd 2017 at 6:17:16 PM

Eh, people have weird standards when it comes to assessing parenting skills. I can think of few fictional parents that get any attention that don't have a group of fans saying they're awful while another gets called wonderful for the same reasons.

Does anyone actually read these?
Memers Since: Aug, 2013
#27588: Jun 23rd 2017 at 6:17:33 PM

Goku never came out and explained to Gohan that he was stronger till 5 seconds beforehand.

It was really selfish to attempt to pull the Unspoken Plan Guarantee.

Ssj3Gojira Arashi Shigehito from The Event Horizon Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Arashi Shigehito
#27589: Jun 23rd 2017 at 6:17:57 PM

Isn't the final episode supposed to be Trunks going back to his timeline to kill the Androids and Cell anyway?

Let's see if you can get past my Beelzemon. Mephiles, WARP SHINKA!
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#27590: Jun 23rd 2017 at 6:19:24 PM

[up][up]I mean, no says that wasn't a mistake. It wasn't really "selfish" though, Goku gets nothing out of doing it.

[down]True.

edited 23rd Jun '17 6:21:43 PM by LSBK

Hobgoblin Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#27591: Jun 23rd 2017 at 6:20:51 PM

Episode was okay, I guess. Nothing I think it's worth getting upset over since it's basically the same as the main series. At least Goku even brought up Piccolo kidnapping Gohan.

That said, the "Cell, this was just a fight. Nothing more." "You bitch." exchange was pretty funny.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#27592: Jun 23rd 2017 at 6:21:51 PM

See, people keep bringing up Piccolo's hypocrisy, but this is what gets me: yes, Piccolo made the same mistake in the past, but it blew up in his face hard. He literally died for it.

Like

Let's say Bob beats his son. Regularly. Just wails on his kid. He's an awful father and he beats his son. Then, one day, something happens that changes his life. He recognizes he f*cked up. He tries to be a better person.

Then he sees Tom beating his son. Is it hypocritical for Bob, from the position of life lessons gained, to try and convince Tom to stop beating his son? Should he just sit back and let Tom continue beating his son, secure in the knowledge that if you've ever made a mistake then you are forever disallowed from speaking out against other people making the same mistake you did?

Like, that's not how wisdom works. At all. Wisdom is just lessons learned from f*cking up, and the point of wisdom is to pass it along to others so they won't f*ck up like you did. Piccolo f*cked up. Now he sees Goku f*cking up and he calls it out because it's literally the same f*ck-up. The only thing he's wrong about is that when Goku does it, it works, because the narrative likes him more than it does Piccolo.

edited 23rd Jun '17 6:24:48 PM by TobiasDrake

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LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#27593: Jun 23rd 2017 at 6:24:06 PM

[up]I don't think Piccolo considers what he did a mistake. Like, they all would have died if Gohan wasn't there, and the ones who did die wouldn't have been brought back without him doing what he was doing.

When I mentioned hypocrisy, it wasn't because Piccolo did a shitty thing (though it was, just like Goku springing this on Gohan is) but is ragging on Goku for the same thing, it's that he, more than anyone, should understand where Goku was coming from with this.

edited 23rd Jun '17 6:27:07 PM by LSBK

randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#27594: Jun 23rd 2017 at 6:24:18 PM

[up][up][up][up]He doesn't physically get anything...

But he does get pride in his son finally realizing his true strength and taking the mantle.

edited 23rd Jun '17 6:24:40 PM by randomness4

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
WillDeRegio Since: Jan, 2015
#27595: Jun 23rd 2017 at 6:24:41 PM

TFS is no longer Crossing the Line Twice, they're using the line as a damn jump rope. And it is hilarious.

And Goku isn't a terrible father; he's just a brain damaged Saiyan who didn't quite have a normal childhood doing the best he can with what he got.

Ssj3Gojira Arashi Shigehito from The Event Horizon Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Arashi Shigehito
#27596: Jun 23rd 2017 at 6:26:26 PM

Which doesn't exactly work since Gohan prolongs the fight far longer than he should, due to increased sadism, which blows up in everyone's face. Mostly Goku's though, and Kaio-sama, and Bubbles, and Gregory depending on whether or not he exists during a specific point in time.

Let's see if you can get past my Beelzemon. Mephiles, WARP SHINKA!
KarkatTheDalek Not as angry as the name would suggest. from Somwhere in Time/Space Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: You're a beautiful woman, probably
Not as angry as the name would suggest.
#27597: Jun 23rd 2017 at 6:27:03 PM

[up][up] I'm not sure if that excludes someone from being a bad father.

If anything, that's a pretty good reason why someone shouldn't be a parent.

edited 23rd Jun '17 6:27:28 PM by KarkatTheDalek

Oh God! Natural light!
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#27598: Jun 23rd 2017 at 6:27:35 PM

Piccolo realized what he did was a mistake during the fight with Nappa. It's why he gives up on trying to persuade Gohan to fight Nappa - an act that does not prevent his decision to bring Gohan to the fight from backfiring so hard that it literally kills Piccolo.

And much like here, Gohan being there at the Saiyan fight does eventually wind up working out, but only for Goku 'cause the narrative loves him. All Piccolo gets out of it is a noble death protecting Gohan from the consequences of bad decision-making.

edited 23rd Jun '17 6:28:25 PM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Ssj3Gojira Arashi Shigehito from The Event Horizon Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Arashi Shigehito
#27599: Jun 23rd 2017 at 6:29:12 PM

Which TFS actually lampshaded by him realizing too late that he could have just grabbed Gohan and run.

Let's see if you can get past my Beelzemon. Mephiles, WARP SHINKA!
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#27600: Jun 23rd 2017 at 6:29:21 PM

He's also objectively right.

[up][up] it's not the narrative loving Goku - he got the shit beaten out of him and had to admit defeat. Gohan really did step up, and even held off Vegeta long enough for Goku/Kuririn pull off the spirit bomb.

What Piccolo did was awful, but he was still right about Gohan's importance. What Goku did was nowhere near as bad, and far more necessary.

edited 23rd Jun '17 6:33:50 PM by Saiga


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