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EchoingSilence Since: Jun, 2013
#27551: Jun 23rd 2017 at 5:15:30 PM

I'd say he'd be a good dad if he wasn't dead most of the time or concerned with a good fight and the fate of the world.

randomness4 Ghost '11 from The Land of Inconvenience Since: Sep, 2011
Ghost '11
#27552: Jun 23rd 2017 at 5:21:35 PM

Being dead isn't a character flaw...

Rules of the Internet 45. Rule 45 is a lie. Check out my art if you notice.
Alfric Sailing the Skies! from Crescent Isle Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Sailing the Skies!
#27553: Jun 23rd 2017 at 5:21:56 PM

Y'know, I have heard this a lot and have spoken about it with some friends, but what have TFS actually gotten factually wrong about DBZ. Not just interpretations that are disliked, but things that are explicitly factually wrong (so like, not the Android 16 memory thing, since while it could be argued to be stupid, is not factually wrong)? I can't think of any off the top of my head, but then I don't know too much about Dragon Ball Z in depth.

[up] It does however get in the way of being a particularly notable father. The guy down the street might not be a bad guy, but I dunno shit about him and he's done nothing for me, so I'll hardly say he was a good dad to me.

edited 23rd Jun '17 5:23:46 PM by Alfric

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/lb_i.php?lb_id=13239183440B34964700 Alfric's Fire Emblem Liveblog Encyclopedia!
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#27554: Jun 23rd 2017 at 5:22:28 PM

It's not that they present Goku as a bad father, it's that I think they do it badly. There are better ways to joke about that, and they go for the easy, not particularly accurate way every time, because like a lot of fans, they just assume it's true without really putting a lot of thought into.

[up]Dende's Shenron only being able to grant two wishes. That's a common fan conception, possibly due to poor translation, and it carried over.

edited 23rd Jun '17 5:23:31 PM by LSBK

EchoingSilence Since: Jun, 2013
#27555: Jun 23rd 2017 at 5:28:58 PM

I'll tolerate the joke for now, because here at least Goku is trying. He's honestly interested and thinks his son is more than capable, he believes Gohan can do it (And we know he can.)

Arha Since: Jan, 2010
#27556: Jun 23rd 2017 at 5:31:08 PM

I'll tolerate it because while the joke is still stale, at least it's not incredibly forced in this specific scene. But I seriously hope this is the last of it.

Oh, and the execution itself sucked this episode.

edited 23rd Jun '17 5:31:38 PM by Arha

Ghilz Perpetually Confused from Yeeted at Relativistic Velocities Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Perpetually Confused
#27557: Jun 23rd 2017 at 5:31:36 PM

I'll tolerate it coz it's hilarious.

Lionheart0 Since: Oct, 2009 Relationship Status: I'm just a hunk-a, hunk-a burnin' love
#27558: Jun 23rd 2017 at 5:32:08 PM

[up][up][up][up] Their specific portrayal of Goku doesn't bother me as much as their whitewashing of Piccolo's traits in comparison. Piccolo cares about Gohan that much is true, but he honestly doesn't any more extra time with him that Goku does. During the gaps where Goku is off training, Piccolo is either off on his own meditating and training and later at the lookout doing the exact same thing.

When you think about it, it wasn't even until Super that Piccolo finally spent more time around Gohan socially.

The Fandom is guilty of doing the same thing with Vegeta as well, even though it's apparent that he does the absolute bare minimum of interacting with his family when he's at home and as of Super spends almost just as much time off-world training as Goku does.

edited 23rd Jun '17 5:33:19 PM by Lionheart0

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#27559: Jun 23rd 2017 at 5:34:39 PM

[up]All of this.

But, to be fair, what they did here actually is basically how it happened in "canon". And it's not like Piccolo being a giant hypocrite gets pointed out there either, though they actually do mention it here. Though, it's probably not supposed to be taken that way.

edited 23rd Jun '17 5:35:56 PM by LSBK

WillKeaton from Alberta, Canada Since: Jun, 2010
#27560: Jun 23rd 2017 at 5:35:46 PM

Wait, when Dende took over ownership of Shenron didn't he start granting two wishes then? How do you mistranslate that? Didn't Shenron grant two wishes when he revived all the people Cell killed and took the bomb out of 18?

LordVatek Not really a lord of anything Since: Sep, 2014
Not really a lord of anything
#27561: Jun 23rd 2017 at 5:36:24 PM

I honestly have no idea how they're going to believably segue into the Father-Son Kamehameha.

This song needs more love.
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#27562: Jun 23rd 2017 at 5:36:52 PM

[up][up]Mass revivals eat up two wishes, leaving one more. But outside of that Shenron can grant three, as was shown in Super.

The mistranslation is in treating Shenron being able to do mass-revivals as if it lowers the wish baseline to two, even if no mass-revival wish is made.

edited 23rd Jun '17 5:45:20 PM by LSBK

SonOfSharknado Love is Love is Love Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Lionheart0 Since: Oct, 2009 Relationship Status: I'm just a hunk-a, hunk-a burnin' love
#27564: Jun 23rd 2017 at 5:38:37 PM

But yeah, I stand corrected on my post from yesterday. I thought it was mostly a Lani thing, but Kaiser was quite vocal with it tonight too. lol

Alfric Sailing the Skies! from Crescent Isle Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Sailing the Skies!
#27565: Jun 23rd 2017 at 5:39:58 PM

Entirely unrelated to the factualness question, but is Fuji TV called Shueisha now, or does someone else have the rights to DBZ, because they've changed the disclaimer at the start to have Shueisha instead of Fuji TV.

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Ghilz Perpetually Confused from Yeeted at Relativistic Velocities Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Perpetually Confused
#27566: Jun 23rd 2017 at 5:42:53 PM

Shueisha is the company that owns, amongst other things, Shonen Jump

Alfric Sailing the Skies! from Crescent Isle Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Sailing the Skies!
#27567: Jun 23rd 2017 at 5:44:13 PM

But weren't they only added to the disclaimer recently? Did they only recently obtain ownership or something?

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Lionheart0 Since: Oct, 2009 Relationship Status: I'm just a hunk-a, hunk-a burnin' love
#27568: Jun 23rd 2017 at 5:48:19 PM

[up] In the past year, Shueisha created a department specifically dedicated toward creating content for the Dragon Ball IP, so that is likely the reason why they were added to the Disclaimer.

Zelenal The Cat Knows Where It's At from Purrgatory Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
The Cat Knows Where It's At
#27569: Jun 23rd 2017 at 5:48:54 PM

@Vatek: They don't have to. Goku can be edited out of that scene.

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HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#27570: Jun 23rd 2017 at 5:49:49 PM

...

<Sees all the stuff about how good a father Goku is or isn't>

There's no pole long enough to even make me think of touching this topic. I'm just gonna laugh at all the stuff going on.

And hey, I totally forgot that Piza, Piroshki and Caroni (sp) are dead in this. So maybe those three are the ones that needed to be edited out that they mentioned before.

So yeah, fuck all that shit with Goku as a dad. I'm just gonna enjoy the funny stuff.

<Watches episode>

...yup. Still good.

One Strip! One Strip!
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#27571: Jun 23rd 2017 at 5:50:07 PM

[up][up]I don't think they'd go that far with this.

Really though, it's sad that this and other stuff has taken away from my enjoyment of the series a bit.

edited 23rd Jun '17 5:51:38 PM by LSBK

Ssj3Gojira Arashi Shigehito from The Event Horizon Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Arashi Shigehito
#27572: Jun 23rd 2017 at 5:53:43 PM

Except, isn't Piccolo actually right? Like yes, Gohan fights all the time, but he never actually does it because he likes fighting, he only ever does it as a means to an end, whether that be fighting the Saiyans to protect Earth or fighting Frieza's forces to protect the Namekians still alive and to get the Dragon Balls to revive everyone who died against the Saiyans. Goku may fight to protect his friends, and the Earth by proxy, but half the time it's that and the other half it's because he actually loves fighting strong people; that was the whole reason Vegeta was spared at all, because Goku wanted to fight him again and win on his own next time, and he even admits that he's being selfish to Krillin. Hell, this was mentioned all the way back in the fight with Piccolo Jr., where Master Roshi flat-out says, and I quote, "Heh...Goku never was one to think much about the global situation. The only thing that really gets him excited...is fighting an opponent worthy of him..."

Yes, Gohan might not be a pacifist, but he has never enjoyed fighting for any of the same reasons Goku does, and when it comes down to fighting Cell, it all basically boils down to satisfying the Vegeta-sized ego of a monster, and he doesn't see the point of giving him that satisfaction.

edited 23rd Jun '17 5:54:38 PM by Ssj3Gojira

Let's see if you can get past my Beelzemon. Mephiles, WARP SHINKA!
EchoingSilence Since: Jun, 2013
#27573: Jun 23rd 2017 at 5:55:38 PM

Soooooooooo... any comments on Cell's incredible Foe Yay?

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#27574: Jun 23rd 2017 at 5:56:54 PM

[up][up]He completely misjudged why Gohan was refusing to fight and his thought process. Though, even the refusing to fight part comes out of left field, but that's a different discussion.

edited 23rd Jun '17 5:57:58 PM by LSBK

Ssj3Gojira Arashi Shigehito from The Event Horizon Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Arashi Shigehito
#27575: Jun 23rd 2017 at 5:58:46 PM

Didn't Piccolo's entire point boil down to Gohan not being the same as Goku when it comes to fighting?

Let's see if you can get past my Beelzemon. Mephiles, WARP SHINKA!

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