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Zelenal The Cat Knows Where It's At from Purrgatory Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
The Cat Knows Where It's At
#26951: May 14th 2017 at 6:21:37 AM

Guidebooks, from every other example of them I've ever seen, could be classified as a sort of Tier 2 canon, if you will. Tier 1 is anything stated or displayed in the source material and anything said by the creator. Tier 2 is the guidebooks where we can assume all information is accurate provided it doesn't contradict the source material. And sometimes even if it does if it's backed by Word of God.

Besides, guidebooks are incredibly common with Japanese media and they're always a source of valuable information. Even The Legend of Zelda got a guidebook a while ago in the form of Hyrule Historia and everyone treats everything in it (except possibly the manga) as canon.

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Heatth (X-Troper) Relationship Status: In Spades with myself
#26952: May 14th 2017 at 7:20:19 AM

A guidebook for a manga and a guidebook for a game are two completely different things. Games are, very often, corporation products. They are created and written by a variety of different people, which means each new game in a series needs to look back into what have already been written, as no single person involved actually knows everything about it. Manga, meanwhile, is a much more personal affair. More often than not, a single person is responsible for every creative decision and have have final word on everything.

That is why I don't trust manga guidebooks unless they are explicitly backed by Word of God. The author usually don't write them, and they don't consult or care for them. Call it "tier 2 canon" if you will, but I see no value on considering anything other than tier 1 canon when we are discussing tier 1 canon. If the only information about who created the janken was on a guidebook, I wouldn't give a shit about that information, because I am reasonably sure Toriyama didn't either and because I know that this would be instantly ignored the next time a new movie, game or whatever decided to explore that idea.

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#26953: May 14th 2017 at 10:30:33 AM

I believe that is where the "unless explicitly contradicted by the source material or Word of God" part comes in. Toriyama at least, strikes me as the type to go Shrug of God, than to actively deny or contradict something like that latter.

edited 14th May '17 10:30:51 AM by LSBK

Heatth (X-Troper) Relationship Status: In Spades with myself
#26954: May 14th 2017 at 1:57:28 PM

But that is the point. He doesn't care, so why should we? Why should we care about what is essentially fan-fiction. It is like the powerlevels these guides often have. They are meaningless but people attribute a lot of significance to them.

Also "not contradict the source material" is a tricky thing. What if it contradicts my interpretation of the source material? If my interpretation fits perfectly the manga, but it is contradicted by some random guide, why should I care? Why should I take that interpretation as more valid? Just because they were paid by Shueisha? Toriyama won't care either way. Probably not even whoever is writing the next anime/movie/game will.

edited 14th May '17 2:00:19 PM by Heatth

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#26955: May 14th 2017 at 2:00:27 PM

You don't have to care, but if other people here do then be nice and let them have a discussion on it.

Heatth (X-Troper) Relationship Status: In Spades with myself
#26956: May 14th 2017 at 2:40:21 PM

"I" was manner of speak. I am sincerely arguing that no one should put stock in guidebooks, the same way I argue no one should put stock into anime filler note ..

Thebrawlbro Since: Aug, 2013
#26957: May 14th 2017 at 7:01:21 PM

Also, we got the Canadian subtitles for the newest episode if you want a reason to rewatch it.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#26958: May 14th 2017 at 7:40:13 PM

Courtesy of said subtitles, I finally got the joke when Cell fires the Makankosappo. I could never make out what the fourth Cell was saying. It sounded like "Adon" so I thought it might be some other anime joke. Like maybe something out of Naruto.

I have hearing troubles sometimes.

No, the gag is that the Cells got confused as to whether they're supposed to be using English or Japanese names for the attack.

  • Cell 1: MA
  • Cell 2: KANKO
  • Cell 3: SA
  • Cell 4: CANNON

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HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#26959: May 14th 2017 at 8:06:29 PM

I caught the cannon.

I'd forgotten though until you brought it up.

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wanderlustwarrior Role Model from Where Gods Belong Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
Role Model
#26960: May 14th 2017 at 9:46:10 PM

I dunno about Shonen heroes not inventing moves...

  • Naruto invented the advanced Rasengan variants, the Sexy Jutsu (don't tell me that wasn't important in the last arc), and various clone combos
  • Ichigo decidedly didn't learn the Shikai moves used by "Hollow" Ichigo, and instead worked on his own variants of his beam spam
  • Luffy took inspiration of the Gears from others, but much of his fighting style is his own
  • While Edward Elric mixes alchemy with hand-to-hand like Alphonse and Izumi, he goes his own way about both of those things
  • Light Yagami made a point of using the Death Note in new and unexpected ways that surprised Ryuk

God_of_Awesome Since: Jan, 2001
#26961: May 14th 2017 at 9:59:42 PM

Light Yagami is not a shonen protagonist.

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#26962: May 14th 2017 at 10:01:34 PM

Yes he is. He's not a "good guy" but Death Note was Shonen, and he was the protagonist.

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#26963: May 14th 2017 at 10:10:03 PM

Naruto invented the advanced Rasengan variants

Since I'm a jerk, I don't count variants of moves someone else taught him.

the Sexy Jutsu (don't tell me that wasn't important in the last arc)

I can't, but I hated that last arc, and everything in it, including that he used the Sexy Jutsu during that battle, and that it worked. That being said, I mentioned that the sexy jutsu is original, so I'll count that.

and various clone combos

Don't count those for the same reason as the Rasengan variants. This is just my own personal opinion though.

Luffy took inspiration of the Gears from others, but much of his fighting style is his own

See, I'll give you Luffy. Before he was inspired by the Rokushiki technique to invent the gears, all of his moves were completely original flavour. I guess he's one of the few who actually doesn't steal from someone else. Not bad for a rubber man.

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Arha Since: Jan, 2010
#26964: May 14th 2017 at 10:28:20 PM

Sexy jutsu is just a basic transformation jutsu.

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#26965: May 14th 2017 at 10:35:13 PM

They always treated it like it wasn't for some reason, though.

Zelenal The Cat Knows Where It's At from Purrgatory Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
The Cat Knows Where It's At
#26966: May 14th 2017 at 10:58:15 PM

That because it's ~SEXY~

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Arha Since: Jan, 2010
#26967: May 14th 2017 at 11:23:49 PM

I refuse to believe that the Konoha prostitutes didn't come up with it first.

Zelenal The Cat Knows Where It's At from Purrgatory Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
The Cat Knows Where It's At
#26968: May 15th 2017 at 3:03:21 AM

That makes sense. After all, they are also ninjas. That's why they're called ninja prostitutes.

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Nikkolas from Texas Since: Dec, 2009 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#26969: May 15th 2017 at 3:13:18 AM

There would be no ninja prostitutes in Light's New World and therefore I can now understand why people think he's evil.

Did Kenshin ever invent anything? That's kind of an odd thing to think about. He's one of the most competent and intelligent shounen heroes around but it's because he is actually well-trained. He is a great warrior because he is a great student.

Inuyasha just killed shit and got powerups thanks to that. But Kagome was the real hero anyway and she...mostly just shot arrows. Hm. Combat was not IY's strong point.

edited 15th May '17 3:14:34 AM by Nikkolas

Zelenal The Cat Knows Where It's At from Purrgatory Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
The Cat Knows Where It's At
#26970: May 15th 2017 at 3:56:52 AM

Himura Kenshin? Not that we know of.

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Eriorguez Since: Jun, 2009
#26971: May 15th 2017 at 4:19:40 AM

I can now understand why people think he's evil.

A walking god complex who decided to kill anyone he deemed unworthy of living is repulsive, no matter how noble his intentions may be (and seeing he decided to become the god of his new world at the very beggining, those intentions weren't really noble to begin with).

Seriously, what's next, Freeza in Leather Pants?

edited 15th May '17 4:19:57 AM by Eriorguez

Nikkolas from Texas Since: Dec, 2009 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#26972: May 15th 2017 at 4:30:55 AM

[up][up] Yeah I meant that Kenshin.

[up] I wasn't being serious. Sorry, thought that was clearer. I'm more sympathetic to Light than a lot of people but he is obviously evil. I think every Light fan agrees with that. They just support him anyway for a variety of reasons, some believing a bad person can be a good king and similar mentalities.

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
Zelenal The Cat Knows Where It's At from Purrgatory Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
The Cat Knows Where It's At
#26974: May 15th 2017 at 4:44:52 AM

zamasu did nothing wrong

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Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder

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