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unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#26876: May 12th 2017 at 6:20:48 PM

...I think if Gohan went Super Saiyan 2 in the abridged version Goku would have died. Abridged Gohan doesn't like Goku much.

And, frankly, given what Super Saiyan 2 Gohan is like in the series, I'm not even sure that wouldn't be the case in the manga, because Super Saiyan 2 Gohan is a terrifyingly sadistic monster at the Cell Games. And so scarily powerful that he can make Cell Jrs. stronger than Goku explode.

[up] Still doesn't explain Yajirobe's sword.

edited 12th May '17 6:22:34 PM by unnoun

Zelenal The Cat Knows Where It's At from Purrgatory Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
The Cat Knows Where It's At
#26877: May 12th 2017 at 6:22:39 PM

We don't know for a fact that the Cell Jrs were stronger than Goku because Goku wasn't at full power.

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LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#26878: May 12th 2017 at 6:23:14 PM

Abridged!Gohan's feelings about Goku are very complicated.

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#26879: May 12th 2017 at 6:25:20 PM

[up][up][up] Saiyan tails are really weak. Puar can cut through Goku's when he's 10x stronger than Yamcha, Goku's snapped off from being tossed around, etc

Lionheart0 Since: Oct, 2009 Relationship Status: I'm just a hunk-a, hunk-a burnin' love
#26880: May 12th 2017 at 6:25:44 PM

I am interested in what TFS will write as the reason Goku decides not to eat a Senzu bean. I get the whole "he was confident Gohan could stomp Cell with no problem", but there was still no reason not to heal up.

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#26881: May 12th 2017 at 6:26:32 PM

Just say he forgot to do it.

I mean, Goku is kinda dumb.

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unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#26882: May 12th 2017 at 6:28:04 PM

I mean, to pull numbers out my ass.

Let's say for the sake of argument that Vegeta's injuries from fighting Goku, the Kaio Ken kamehameha beam struggle and making the power ball reduced Vegeta by exactly Goku's base power, making Vegeta 10,000, 100,000 as a great ape.

Assuming Vegeta's power level is evenly distributed, then his tail is also 100,000.

So that means a katana is 10,000 times stronger than a gun.

[up][up][up] Okay, but could a gun have cut Vegeta's tail?

Also, haven't Saiyans used tails to attack?

If tails are 10000 times weaker than the rest of them, how did Raditz slap Krillin through a house with his?

Krillin was weaker than Raditz, but not 10000 times weaker.

edited 12th May '17 6:32:27 PM by unnoun

Hobgoblin Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#26883: May 12th 2017 at 6:29:15 PM

Goku and Mr. Perfect Cell have a great relationship. Too bad they want to kill each other.

WillDeRegio Since: Jan, 2015
#26884: May 12th 2017 at 6:32:07 PM

[up][up]A) Guns Are Worthless. B) Katanas Are Just Better.

Also, maybe tails are Glass Cannons? They might have the same power level as the rest of the body, but maybe they don't have the same defenses.

edited 12th May '17 6:34:08 PM by WillDeRegio

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#26885: May 12th 2017 at 6:34:12 PM

Also, on the anime making it seem like Goku always planned on rage boost / Super Saiyan 2 Gohan - the manga kind of does as well, once the fighting starts. I think most people here remember that it's first Gohan who comes out with it, believing that that is what Goku is planning on. Which at first, just seems like him still unable to come to terms with the fact that he surpassed his father, trying to rationalize it through his hidden power. But Goku's own dialogue from that point makes it sound like he was planning on this:

Chapter: 404 (DBZ 210), P16.2-3
Gohan: “I-I’m gradually starting to understand…What father means when he says I’m the only one who can defeat Cell…It seems that since long ago, whenever my anger flares up, I subconsciously begin fighting madly with outrageous power…So…father must be calculating on that…”

Chapter: 405 (DBZ 211), P5.2
Goku: “That’s it…That’s fine, Cell! Get Gohan angry…! If you do, you’ll experience true fear for the first time…”

Chapter: 405 (DBZ 211), P10.4, P10.6
Goku: “…Wait for Gohan to get angry…! He’ll…probably…unleash his true power through anger, and suddenly display ferocious strength [ ] …To defeat Cell…The only thing we can do is place our hopes in this power of Gohan’s…”

Chapter: 407 (DBZ 213), P7.6, P13.3, P14.7
Context: as Gohan kills the Cell Juniors
Goku: “Hehhehehe…I kne-knew it…”

Now, it could be that this is just Goku's plan B after he realized Gohan doesn't want to fight. But the way he talks, it definitely makes it seem like A) Gohan isn't powerful enough without his rage, even if he wanted to fight and B) Goku was planning on that.

However, since Cell was holding back against Goku, it could be that Cell simply used more power and overpowered Gohan. He does mention using his true speed (while making it clear he's only going all out in speed), but isn't shown powering up and no-one comments on him being stronger than when he fought Goku.

I think it's most likely that Cell WAS using more power and Gohan's rage was the backup plan when Cell proved too powerful, and it just wasn't made very clear. It's easy to see where the confusion came from though.

[up][up][up] When I say they're weak, I mean they're very easy to break. That doesn't mean they can't put any power behind attacks with them. But they're not used often for attacks anyway, and when they do they're not particularly impressive attacks, so they still don't seem that strong in any regard.

edited 12th May '17 6:36:24 PM by Saiga

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
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#26886: May 12th 2017 at 6:35:08 PM

It says a lot about how Vegeta took that fight that his general reaction to seeing the Earthlings on Namek was basically "Ha! That's hilarious!"

Like, he was only open to working with them out of necessity, but he wasn't exactly hunting them down to make coffee with their bones either. Not until Gohan stole his Dragon Ball.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#26887: May 12th 2017 at 6:40:56 PM

I mean, they sorta did him a favor.

He's probably wanted to kill Cui and Dodoria for years.

unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#26888: May 12th 2017 at 6:51:54 PM

Not sure if Toriyama knows this, but given supposedly professional shooters recommend not shooting people in the forehead because the bullet might ricochet, I'm not even sure that Goku surviving Bulma even says that much about a power level of 10.

Like, our forehead is a really thick bone you guys. It's one of our most defining skeletal features.

edited 12th May '17 7:37:24 PM by unnoun

Enlong Court Dragon from The Underground Facility Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
Court Dragon
#26889: May 12th 2017 at 7:01:22 PM

That was a fun episode.

You know, useless or not, filler or not, the multi-form thing at least makes for a fun fight scene.

Also, the music choice was ace.

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Arha Since: Jan, 2010
#26890: May 12th 2017 at 7:48:41 PM

Is it bad that when they wondered about the possibility of the beam hitting something my first thought was that space is so empty it would most likely never hit anything substantial ever no matter how long it traveled?

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
Ssj3Gojira Arashi Shigehito from The Event Horizon Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Arashi Shigehito
#26892: May 12th 2017 at 7:55:35 PM

I mean, the manga had Fused Zamas say that there were gods on millions of planets, so I'm honestly not sure which is the version Toriyama agrees with.

Let's see if you can get past my Beelzemon. Mephiles, WARP SHINKA!
unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#26893: May 12th 2017 at 7:56:41 PM

[up][up]I mean, we dunno how long that was the case. Just that it is by Super.

And that's planets with life. And New Arlia presumably didn't have life until they moved in.

So one day it went up to 29 and then 28 again.

[up] I mean. Maybe gods don't count as mortals.

Dende can sense Beerus and Piccolo can sense Supreme Kai, so there's Godly Ki involved there.

edited 12th May '17 8:01:53 PM by unnoun

hardcorefakes coolest_guy from probably America Since: Oct, 2015 Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
coolest_guy
#26894: May 12th 2017 at 9:17:19 PM

So millions of planets with gods on them, but only 28 planets with mortals?

Uhhh

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#26895: May 12th 2017 at 9:24:50 PM

But Gohan can sense Dende so he himself has mortal ki.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#26896: May 12th 2017 at 9:26:03 PM

Could be that because they're mortals who ascended to godhood, they have mortal ki but can sense godly ki?

But then that wouldn't explain why Super Saiyan Gods have godly ki....

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Ssj3Gojira Arashi Shigehito from The Event Horizon Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Arashi Shigehito
#26897: May 12th 2017 at 9:37:58 PM

I mean, the databooks say that the Kami of a planet is chosen from a member of the planet's population, so you kind of need sentient life in order to have a Kami in the first place.

Let's see if you can get past my Beelzemon. Mephiles, WARP SHINKA!
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#26898: May 12th 2017 at 10:06:38 PM

Dende wasn't. Goku went and fetched him 'cause they needed functioning Dragon Balls more than they needed a functioning God.

edited 12th May '17 10:07:05 PM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Memers Since: Aug, 2013
#26899: May 12th 2017 at 10:28:17 PM

Heh, Satan has a faster respawn timer than Jesus!

Karxrida from Eureka, the Forbidden Land Since: May, 2012 Relationship Status: I LOVE THIS DOCTOR!

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