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LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#26801: May 11th 2017 at 9:50:41 PM

Seriously, "Power levels are bullshit!" has been taken so far out of context it's basically meaningless now, and that's not ignoring any possible issues even in proper context.

Edit: Page topper.

edited 11th May '17 9:51:04 PM by LSBK

Moth13 Since: Sep, 2010
#26802: May 11th 2017 at 9:57:49 PM

[up][up]I swear you say that every time someone complains about power levels, but the problem isn't that Goku is much stronger than Farmer with Shotgun, the problem is the dumb measuring system where you get that silly stuff like kid Goku being """twice""" as strong as farmer with shotgun.

unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#26803: May 11th 2017 at 10:05:36 PM

I choose to believe that. Like, power level is literally just a measurement of ki. It is how much ki you have inside of you. That's a fact.

But not every fighter uses their ki the same way. Some people might have an easier time using ki for some things than others. We know Goku sucked at flying at first, and the version of flight he developed was kinda inefficient compared to what Piccolo had, which is why Goku still used the nimbus so as not to use up too much energy.

So when Burter's the fastest in the universe, it's because he is, for whatever reason, able to channel all of his ki directly into speed. So he is much faster than the average person with a power level that's identical to his own.

Obviously when there's people significantly stronger than Burter is when the concept sorta loses meaning. But a hypothetical version of Burter that was as strong as Beerus. In my mind he might not be able to outpunch Beerus. But I think he could, in fact, outrun him.

Zelenal The Cat Knows Where It's At from Purrgatory Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
The Cat Knows Where It's At
#26804: May 11th 2017 at 10:19:06 PM

[up][up] No I don't. Other people, however, do. "Power Levels are canon to real life" used to be PMC's signature for a while.

Let the joy of love give you an answer! Check out my book!
Nightwire Since: Feb, 2010
#26805: May 11th 2017 at 10:38:05 PM

Power levels are meaningless because it's an imaginary system devised by one guy for his fictional characters.

Moth13 Since: Sep, 2010
#26806: May 11th 2017 at 10:45:14 PM

[up][up]Yeah I'm probably conflating a bunch of people's posts onto you. Sorry.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#26807: May 11th 2017 at 11:05:03 PM

My signature's meaning was along the lines of "Power Levels are just as valid a form of measuring ki in Dragon Ball as Miles Per Hour or Pounds per Square Inch is a valid form of measuring movement speed and impact force in Real Life", obviously further context is needed to determine exactly what 16 units of Power Levels translates into in terms of other forms of measuring, but the point stands that expecting anything to be beyond the comprehension of any system of measurement is asinine.

On Goku having a mere Power Level of 10 in his first appearance: the only source for that is a guidebook, and guidebooks tend to have wildly contradictory numbers for Power Levels, so I tend to take their information with a large grain of salt. I use them if it makes sense, but I discard the information if it seems nonsensical, such as here. Especially since if Goku's Power Level was 10, Grandpa Gohan should still be alive, since Oozaru Goku would be a mere 100 at maximum, and Gohan would've been much stronger than that. My personal estimation for Goku's starting Power Level is around 30.

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#26808: May 11th 2017 at 11:17:33 PM

Sub 100 isn't that strange for Granpappy Gohan. Saiyan arc Roshi was at 139 in the manga, while that may not be his full power he's still meant to be a lot stronger than he has at the start of the series.

But part of that is how low a ceiling the Saiyan arc battle powers set for the previous arcs. You have to assume the battle powers at the 21st Budokai and before it were really low to allow room for the growth that happens after.

Even then you've got things like the Daimao arc alone having old Daimao claim to use not even half his power to easily overpower Goku. It gets tight.

Power levels are meaningless because it's an imaginary system devised by one guy for his fictional characters.

Well yeah, but then everything in the story is meaningless. Having a thread to discuss it is meaningless.

Not that I disagree - all things are meaningless - but it's not very productive pointinh that out.

edited 11th May '17 11:20:36 PM by Saiga

Zelenal The Cat Knows Where It's At from Purrgatory Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
The Cat Knows Where It's At
#26809: May 11th 2017 at 11:22:38 PM

And that was him not using half of his power before his youth was restored which resulted in a power boost. The numbers we got do not back that up in the slightest.

[up] All things are meaningless until you give them meaning. They're still meaningless in the grand scheme of things but does that really matter?

edited 11th May '17 11:23:44 PM by Zelenal

Let the joy of love give you an answer! Check out my book!
Prime_of_Perfection Where force fails, cunning prevails Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Where force fails, cunning prevails
#26810: May 11th 2017 at 11:26:42 PM

At any rate, Hercule never struck me as even original Dragonball levels of impressive. Compared to people like Nam and such who don't use Ki, he's never stacked up to them either. I picture him as someone who, at best, Goku humiliates in the first round after he acts pompous.

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Arha Since: Jan, 2010
#26811: May 11th 2017 at 11:27:57 PM

How philosophical. Truly, power levels are the door into the inner workings of man's soul.

TyeDyeWildebeest Unreasonably Quirky from Big Rock Candy Mountain Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: How does it feel to treat me like you do?
Unreasonably Quirky
#26812: May 12th 2017 at 5:39:56 AM

[up][up] Which makes you wonder how he and Spopovich made it to the tournament finals that one time.

No beer?! But if there's no beer, then there's no beef or beans!
Zelenal The Cat Knows Where It's At from Purrgatory Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
The Cat Knows Where It's At
#26813: May 12th 2017 at 5:57:20 AM

Luck.

Let the joy of love give you an answer! Check out my book!
3of4 Just a harmless giant from a foreign land. from Five Seconds in the Future. Since: Jan, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
Just a harmless giant from a foreign land.
#26814: May 12th 2017 at 6:14:22 AM

Obviously in the Tournament it was Nappa in a Hairpiece.

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Grahf Since: Jan, 2001
#26815: May 12th 2017 at 6:36:30 AM

Thing is we've never seen Hercule fight someone that's at his level. The fact that he's a joke character doesn't help, but he could be a legitimately great fighter; someone who has decent technique and a lot of strength but is simply prone to showboating a lot.

Problem is of course that makes him an ant in a world of giants.

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#26816: May 12th 2017 at 6:58:29 AM

[up]

Sounds about right. There's really no one left in Hercules league because all the important players are ten or twenty leagues beyond him.

One Strip! One Strip!
TyeDyeWildebeest Unreasonably Quirky from Big Rock Candy Mountain Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: How does it feel to treat me like you do?
Unreasonably Quirky
#26817: May 12th 2017 at 7:07:18 AM

For what it's worth, DEATH BATTLE! has him beating the stuffing out of Dan Hibiki.

No beer?! But if there's no beer, then there's no beef or beans!
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#26819: May 12th 2017 at 8:27:55 AM

Which makes you wonder how he and Spopovich made it to the tournament finals that one time.

The announcer guy mentions how the whole thing is a shadow of what it once was. Which might just be him comparing to the balls-to-the-wall Goku era, or saying the tournament has fallen completely below the usual standards.

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#26820: May 12th 2017 at 8:31:46 AM

[up]

Since it seems no other ki users were in the tournament, I'm gonna say the latter.

Though the announcer being biased is a complete possibility as well. After the crazy shit he saw out of Goku, it's not surprising that everything else paled in comparison.

One Strip! One Strip!
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#26821: May 12th 2017 at 10:32:45 AM

Considering that when Goku first joined up, the tournament had a freaking dragon, and even the weaker fighters had weird and off-the-wall gimmicks with nobody batting an eye, I always assumed that back in the day the tournament was just more fantastical and impressive in general and that now it's become more standard and showy.

Enlong Court Dragon from The Underground Facility Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
Court Dragon
#26822: May 12th 2017 at 11:01:31 AM

My favorite use of power levels was in Shaman King. For example it had this one scene where one of the villains discusses how putting a number to something like that (or stuff like weight or grades) can break a person's desire to even try, if they don't measure up. And then the protagonist in that situation ultimately finds a way around his lower power.

I have a message from another time...
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#26823: May 12th 2017 at 11:04:13 AM

I think I know what example you're referring to and even as I was reading that, I really didn't get how he was supposed to be doing what he was doing.

But that was years ago.

Enlong Court Dragon from The Underground Facility Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
Court Dragon
#26824: May 12th 2017 at 11:10:49 AM

Basically, he was doing a Combination Attack using 3 (or 4? Can't recall) different spirits in sequence, making a new over soul for each one. Basically adding each spirit's strength to the mix with each part of the combination, fed with his own power.

Of course, that's not a perfect solution either, since each part of it requires some of his own finite energy to make the oversoul to begin with. So even if he had enough spirits and knew how to work them in sequence, it would still fail if he didn't have enough in the tank to make each weapon. But it was a cool demonstration that there are more than one way to approach that kind of problem.

I have a message from another time...
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#26825: May 12th 2017 at 3:48:39 PM

And then there was the main villain whose power level was so high he could never ever be defeated.


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