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unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#26701: May 3rd 2017 at 3:03:08 PM

Okay, but what if you could use Kaioken as a Great Ape?

Also, the Namekians are nice, mostly. If the Saiyans crash landed on Namek and didn't have anywhere else to go, I feel like the Namekians would probably give them their arms.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#26702: May 3rd 2017 at 3:05:05 PM

Oooo

x10 Oozaru Kaioken would be equivalent to Super Saiyan 2.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Arha Since: Jan, 2010
#26703: May 3rd 2017 at 3:31:49 PM

Vegeta actually commented that his tail would grow back soon and then it was never mentioned again.

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#26704: May 3rd 2017 at 3:32:06 PM

You know, that's something I've always wondered; why didn't their tails ever grow back? Like, both Goku and Gohan have had their tails grow back at least once (at inopportune times for their opponents), so how come it never happened again after the Saiyan Saga? Is it that the tail stops growing back after a saiyan becomes an adult? And if that's the case, then why didn't Gohan's tail ever grow back after it was severed for the second time?

It's entirely because Toriyama didn't want to draw the tails anymore. He's just completely thrown them out. I mean, even the universe 6 saiyans conveniently lack them.

One Strip! One Strip!
WillDeRegio Since: Jan, 2015
#26705: May 3rd 2017 at 3:39:16 PM

Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan Tailless Oozaru Kaioken x10... Am I missing anything?

As for how you get a tailless oozaru... magic wish-granting dragons.

edited 3rd May '17 3:41:23 PM by WillDeRegio

Zelenal The Cat Knows Where It's At from Purrgatory Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
The Cat Knows Where It's At
#26706: May 3rd 2017 at 3:43:36 PM

(Scouter)

Let the joy of love give you an answer! Check out my book!
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#26707: May 3rd 2017 at 3:51:24 PM

Minor nitpick: Goku's tail grew back twice. One time during the 21st Tenkaichi Budokai after Puar cut it off, and one time off-screen after Grandpa Gohan ripped it off.

WillKeaton from Alberta, Canada Since: Jun, 2010
#26708: May 3rd 2017 at 4:16:20 PM

I think there's a point when a Saiyan becomes too old to regrow their tail. Then we saw tailless Trunks and Goten and who knows why Toriyama can't keep these things straight.

Cross (Don’t ask)
#26709: May 3rd 2017 at 4:22:42 PM

My theory has always been they cut their tails off while they were young then cauterized it so it wouldn't grow back.

Ssj3Gojira Arashi Shigehito from The Event Horizon Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Arashi Shigehito
#26710: May 3rd 2017 at 4:29:56 PM

Technically, it also grew back again by the time he fought King Piccolo, as he had it when he met Kami for the first time.

Let's see if you can get past my Beelzemon. Mephiles, WARP SHINKA!
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#26711: May 3rd 2017 at 4:34:20 PM

For me, the question was always less "What determines how many times it'll grow back?" and more "Why does it grow back, ever?"

edited 3rd May '17 4:34:46 PM by LSBK

SonOfSharknado Love is Love is Love Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Love is Love is Love
#26712: May 3rd 2017 at 4:38:41 PM

I have a sneaking suspicion that if you tried to use Kaiouken as an Oozaru you would just explode.

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TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#26713: May 3rd 2017 at 4:42:12 PM

That had long been my suspicion on why Goku never used it as a Super Saiyan, that one filler arc excepted.

Super confirmed it.

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Ssj3Gojira Arashi Shigehito from The Event Horizon Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Arashi Shigehito
#26714: May 3rd 2017 at 4:48:36 PM

Except Ōzaru doesn't work in the same way as Super Saiyan, like at all.

Let's see if you can get past my Beelzemon. Mephiles, WARP SHINKA!
Eriorguez Since: Jun, 2009
#26715: May 3rd 2017 at 4:49:13 PM

Toei did so, as Blue Kaioken keeps popping up in the anime while the manga refrains from using it, so it probably isn't in Toriyama's outline (and therefore won't be a plot point).

Memers Since: Aug, 2013
#26716: May 3rd 2017 at 7:25:39 PM

On the whole Gine thing, I think it was more Toriyama's attempt to explain how Goku's kindness and hero elements came from aside from just saying 'its brain damage'.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#26717: May 3rd 2017 at 9:56:35 PM

How about "It's brain damage and also he was raised from infancy by an old man kind and noble enough to take in a rampaging murderbaby"?

Gine, like Broly, is trying to plug a hole that doesn't actually exist. She's a nature explanation for something we already have a perfectly good nurture for.

edited 3rd May '17 9:57:12 PM by TobiasDrake

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Nightwire Since: Feb, 2010
#26718: May 3rd 2017 at 10:06:41 PM

And, I don't know if you're aware of it, but babies are generally assholes. Doesn't mean at least some of them can grow up to be decent people.

Zeromaeus Since: May, 2010
#26719: May 4th 2017 at 5:13:21 AM

Well, nurture is all well and good, but would Grandpa Gohan's good nature be able to overwrite generations of breeding towards making freaking babies into horrible murder monsters that only get worse as they age? Babies are sent to planets to wipe them out. The given idea is that if you send a saiyan to a planet as an infant, they will just naturally gravitate toward killing everything. That's some pretty potent nature.

edited 4th May '17 5:15:50 AM by Zeromaeus

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#26720: May 4th 2017 at 5:14:28 AM

A flashback shows that God offered to permanently remove Goku's tail, so that was the original explanation for his not coming back. Later Toriyama explained that when you get as powerful as Goku/Vegeta the tails just become a hindrance and stop growing back.

It's not Goten/Trunks who contradicted the idea of age being a factor, considering that Gohan stopped growing his tail back after the second time he lost it at five.

[up] And yet, Vegeta, who is an evil bastard even by Saiyan standards, could be redeemed even in his adulthood. I don't think Saiyan babies should be seen as harder to redeem than that.

edited 4th May '17 5:15:56 AM by Saiga

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#26721: May 4th 2017 at 6:59:43 AM

Later Toriyama explained that when you get as powerful as Goku/Vegeta the tails just become a hindrance and stop growing back.

How exactly do they become a hinderance? This is just my own bias (I think there was still a lot to explore with the tails, especially in combination with Super Saiyan, so I hate that he just got rid of them), but I'd like to at least her his in universe logic for it, since I know his real world logic.

One Strip! One Strip!
Moth13 Since: Sep, 2010
#26722: May 4th 2017 at 7:07:27 AM

They're a weak point, remember?

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#26723: May 4th 2017 at 7:13:22 AM

Well, nurture is all well and good, but would Grandpa Gohan's good nature be able to overwrite generations of breeding towards making freaking babies into horrible murder monsters that only get worse as they age? Babies are sent to planets to wipe them out. The given idea is that if you send a saiyan to a planet as an infant, they will just naturally gravitate toward killing everything. That's some pretty potent nature.

That's where the brain damage comes in.

  • Falling down a cliff and smashing his head on a rock made Kakarot forget how to be a Saiyan.
  • Being raised by Gohan taught Kakarot how to be Goku.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#26724: May 4th 2017 at 7:19:27 AM

I kind of miss the tail, mostly because it allowed for a very fun and unique fighting style that made for some really cool fight choreography in the 21st and 22nd Tenkaichi Budokais.

Memers Since: Aug, 2013
#26725: May 4th 2017 at 7:21:37 AM

Fun choreography and interesting techniques went out the window when POWER LEVELS became god.


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