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PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#26626: May 2nd 2017 at 3:50:45 PM

Screw Father of Goku, psychic future sight doesn't even make sense as a story to tell with a Saiyan, of all species. Minus isn't perfect, and it's not as action-y as Father, but it's also not nearly as dumb.

edited 2nd May '17 3:54:02 PM by PushoverMediaCritic

AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#26627: May 2nd 2017 at 3:53:59 PM

[up][up][up]

People are entitled to their opinion.

I'm sixthing this opinion, by the way, Father of Goku is better.

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Ghilz Perpetually Confused from Yeeted at Relativistic Velocities Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Perpetually Confused
#26628: May 2nd 2017 at 3:57:21 PM

Screw Father of Goku, psychic future sight doesn't even make sense as a story to tell with a Saiyan, of all species. Minus isn't perfect, and it's not as action-y as Father, but it's also not nearly as dumb.

Father isn't flawless, but it's rather good. And original. I like that in the end, Bardock doesn't really accomplish anything. He doesn't even really go down in a blaze of glory. It's a man who finds out about a great evil, gives it his best... and fails.

Minus meanwhile, is far more... derivative. It's every Superman origin story, with Bardock as Jor-El and Gine as Lara. Plus Gine reinforces the idea that is all too common in DBZ that married women (and mother) can't be badass by being just a Saiyan cook. Minus is not BAD, but it feels like the story doesn't really make the world of Dragonball much interesting. I will give it props for remembering Raditz exists.

Also, the psychic future thing happens in Minus too. Bardock's entire thing is based on some unexplained premonition!

edited 2nd May '17 4:05:12 PM by Ghilz

Shaoken (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Dating Catwoman
#26629: May 2nd 2017 at 4:30:04 PM

I'll add a seventh to preferring Father of Goku over minus. It might just be nostalgia talking but that's the one I enjoyed.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
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#26630: May 2nd 2017 at 4:32:02 PM

I would have liked Father of Goku more if that mob of warriors behind Bardock when he challenges Frieza were Saiyans coming to defend Planet Vegeta like everyone originally thought they were supposed to be from the anime's flashbacks.

The future sight element also never really did anything for me. I feel like it was just there so that Bardock could have a consolation prize.

edited 2nd May '17 4:32:40 PM by TobiasDrake

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HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#26631: May 2nd 2017 at 4:53:25 PM

Father of Goku.

I mean, I can almost see the appeal of Minus (since it at least explains why Frieza would have believed all Saiyans were on the planet: he told them to go there, and Goku, Vegeta, etc being off world is due to people disobeying that order for one reason or another), but the stuff with Gine irks me far too much.

If you want her to be cook, I can deal with that. If you want her to be gentle (even if you think it's unnecessary) I can deal with that.

But using that as an excuse to make her a non-combatant in a race that has explicitly been said to be a warrior race (and with her being the first significant pure blooded female in that race at that) is really too much.

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TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
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#26632: May 2nd 2017 at 5:03:23 PM

Yeah, Gine bothers me too.

That said, I don't feel that Frieza telling all the Saiyans to be on Planet Vegeta appropriately answers that question. Instead, just raises new ones.

Frieza was worried that the Saiyans, plural, would become powerful enough to one day rise up and overthrow him. He's cool with a handful of them existing and puts them to use. That makes sense. He doesn't feel he has anything to fear from four Saiyans. He just doesn't want there to be a planet of them.

But if he specifically intended their genocide to be total, then why would he tolerate Vegeta, Nappa, and Raditz's continued existence?

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LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#26633: May 2nd 2017 at 5:12:29 PM

I mean, even with the current situations the Saiyans are basically waiting for extinction. When you think it's just three guys left, you don't really have to worry about any repopulating so might as well gets some use out of them.

Though you'd think with Vegeta being a prodigy who surpassed his father as a child, would stroke Frieza's paranoia more than anyone.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
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#26634: May 2nd 2017 at 5:24:50 PM

Eh, even as a prodigy, Vegeta only amounted to 0.015% of Frieza's power. He's not concerned about single warriors ever matching him.

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PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#26635: May 2nd 2017 at 6:53:19 PM

Maybe he was more worried about Saiyans in the triple or quadruple digits, and he thought that them in the single digits were no threat? On Gine, I like her character design, and unless Unfortunate Implications are obvious and offensive enough that they should be called out from an in-universe perspective, I try not to judge a work more harshly because of them.

Gine was a warrior for a time, showing that that is an option for female Saiyans, and there is already a precedent for some Saiyans being more softhearted, with Tarble. She was also not a housewife in the kitchen, but a worker in the meat cutting industry.

The inherent sexism in housewives in the kitchen isn't because of any bias towards women as chefs, it's because 'housewife' isn't a paying career, and it accompanies the implication that women are only useful for raising children. Gine has a job, one where she chops meat for distribution, and jobs that deal with food, such as being a chef, cook, or food factory worker, are actually biased against women, not for.

Finally, Saiyans in Dragon Ball Minus are living in primative stone/clay domed houses, implying that they rely on Freeza for providing them with most of their gear, and Saiyans don't seem like they're much for entertainment, so it's possible that aside from going out to kill planets, working in the food industry is one of the only other jobs available.

edited 2nd May '17 6:54:25 PM by PushoverMediaCritic

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#26636: May 2nd 2017 at 6:54:08 PM

But using that as an excuse to make her a non-combatant in a race that has explicitly been said to be a warrior race (and with her being the first significant pure blooded female in that race at that) is really too much

For some reason I'm not as bothered by this since most stuff I've read or watched usually has someone like that.

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#26637: May 2nd 2017 at 6:57:31 PM

[up][up]Tarble was like a disgrace right? And I was under the impression that Gine's situation wasn't normal.

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#26638: May 2nd 2017 at 6:58:48 PM

The problem with Gine is a simple one; Instead of a cool or interesting character we got another housewife, except this one happens to be boring from start to finish.

wanderlustwarrior Role Model from Where Gods Belong Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
Role Model
#26639: May 2nd 2017 at 7:00:17 PM

Is the "Bardock is the original Super Saiyan" story non-canon?

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#26640: May 2nd 2017 at 7:01:07 PM

[up][up][up]Tarble was a disgrace because he had that trait while being of royal blood, and rare mutations like that do tend to come up in more than one person. Even if it was only one in a hundred, that's still Saiyans numbering in the double digits, going by Minus' Saiyan population approximation.

[up][up]Literally just explained in two paragraphs why she's not a housewife.

[up]Yes.

edited 2nd May '17 7:02:26 PM by PushoverMediaCritic

Arha Since: Jan, 2010
#26641: May 2nd 2017 at 7:03:32 PM

Is Gine looked down upon by other Saiyans for not being a warrior? I'd find it more tolerable if she was.

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#26642: May 2nd 2017 at 7:11:15 PM

Gine is a housewife. Your "explanation" is headcanon.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#26643: May 2nd 2017 at 7:13:51 PM

What headcanon? She has a job chopping meat! That inherently disqualifies her from being a housewife!

WillDeRegio Since: Jan, 2015
#26644: May 2nd 2017 at 7:15:34 PM

So... she's a paid housewife, for all of Saiyan-kind.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#26645: May 2nd 2017 at 7:17:43 PM

I'm sure all the women who work in the meatpacking and preparation industry would vehemently disagree with you.

edited 2nd May '17 7:18:42 PM by PushoverMediaCritic

Ssj3Gojira Arashi Shigehito from The Event Horizon Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Arashi Shigehito
#26646: May 2nd 2017 at 7:19:52 PM

Considering meat is the favorite food of pretty much all Saiyans, she probably has one of the most important jobs in their culture.

edited 2nd May '17 7:20:24 PM by Ssj3Gojira

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Zelenal The Cat Knows Where It's At from Purrgatory Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
The Cat Knows Where It's At
#26647: May 2nd 2017 at 7:20:16 PM

I've always defined "housewife" as "a wife who stays at home to take care of the house/children and has no paid job", which seems to be the definition of the word every time I've encountered it, but if you want to change it to mean whatever the hell you want then that's cool, too.

Form now on, a housewife is a wife who is literally a house. Not to be confused with your housewaifu who is usually that dream home you'll never be able to afford ever.

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TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
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#26648: May 2nd 2017 at 7:20:44 PM

Two things:

  1. Even a warrior society needs people to perform non-combat roles. An army's no good if everyone starves to death because nobody wanted to be a chef. Or dies of easily treatable injuries because everyone thought being a doctor is lame. You have to have non-combatants or it just doesn't work. These are usually made up of the people who are ill-suited to combat.
  2. That being said, having the first female Saiyan also be the first Saiyan non-combatant is grossly rife with Unfortunate Implications. Gine wouldn't be a problem if she was balanced by other female Saiyans who were violent, badass warriors like the male Saiyan characters. Problem is, Dragon Ball is heavily lopsided towards the male gender. As it is, she has to bear the burden of being 100% of all Saiyan women depicted in the series. That makes her depiction much more poignant than it needs to be.

Generally speaking, a character should not be a Unique and Special Snowflake in two different ways unless you want those ways to be connected.

edited 2nd May '17 7:22:37 PM by TobiasDrake

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Ssj3Gojira Arashi Shigehito from The Event Horizon Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Arashi Shigehito
#26650: May 2nd 2017 at 7:21:35 PM

I mean, Fasha was a thing...

Let's see if you can get past my Beelzemon. Mephiles, WARP SHINKA!

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