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TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
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#26601: May 1st 2017 at 12:07:31 PM

Why would the Saiyans be learning new cultural customs from the races they genocided?

EDIT: Also, there was less than a decade between the end of the Tuffle War and the destruction of Planet Vegeta. So. They weren't exactly spacefaring for long.

I mean, they got to Planet Vegeta by spaceship, but those were refugees, not galactic explorers.

edited 1st May '17 12:10:07 PM by TobiasDrake

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unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#26602: May 1st 2017 at 12:33:37 PM

I mean, they got the concept of Kingship from somewhere.

When you have rulership by hereditary monarchy, you have to be sure the King's kids are the king's kids. And if the king isn't giving birth to the kids themselves...

And we don't know how long the Saiyans and Truffles shared planet Plant before the War.

edited 1st May '17 12:37:13 PM by unnoun

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
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#26603: May 1st 2017 at 12:36:24 PM

wild mass guessMaybe that's why they scan their battle powers at birth. Because obviously the king's offspring would have a huge battle power like he does. Any baby produced with a pitiful battle power is clearly not the king's, and therefore both child and mother must be put to death.wild mass guess

No one ever accused monarchy of being a good system.

edited 1st May '17 12:36:50 PM by TobiasDrake

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LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#26604: May 1st 2017 at 12:44:59 PM

The Saiyans had to be space-faring before meeting Frieza, because Planet Vegeta wasn't their home world. Which I always found weird, them being portrayed as "primitive" and "savage" and yet having access to enough space crafts to move their entire race.

edited 1st May '17 1:06:41 PM by LSBK

unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#26605: May 1st 2017 at 12:49:19 PM

I mean, I don't imagine the ship that got them from Planet Salad to Planet Plant was very good.

More of a piece of shit held together by duct tape and stubbornness.

edited 1st May '17 12:49:54 PM by unnoun

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
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#26606: May 1st 2017 at 1:00:11 PM

Yeah. We know they made it to Planet Plant, but there's not really any known instances of the Saiyans ever returning to space after that point until Frieza showed up a year after their war with the Tuffles like, "Hey, you guys want to come work for me?"

And then he changed his mind and blew them all up eight years later. And, like, there's not one space colony or offworld settlement to be had. Save for four Saiyans who were out on missions for Frieza at the time, the entire Saiyan population was on Vegeta. Not really what you might expect from a race that had been spacefaring for at least two centuries prior.

By all indications, they managed to make a desperate journey through space one time, but weren't really spacefaring beyond the work they did for the PTO - and I'm sure Frieza brought his own ships.

edited 1st May '17 1:02:01 PM by TobiasDrake

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#26607: May 1st 2017 at 1:22:44 PM

Presumably, the reason they made the desperate journey was because of the original Super Saiyan destroying their planet.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
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#26608: May 1st 2017 at 2:29:47 PM

Timeline doesn't match up for that, oddly enough. The Saiyans arrived on Planet Plant ~200 years before the Saiyan-Tuffle War, but the previous Super Saiyan was 1,000 years ago.

I'm at work and can't confirm at the moment, but my suspicion is that the Super Saiyan destroying the entire planet might have been another Toei-ism. I think he only warrants a passing mention in the manga. I might be wrong on this, though.

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RavenWilder Since: Apr, 2009
#26609: May 1st 2017 at 3:17:45 PM

Unless they spent several centuries living on a Colony Ship.

edited 1st May '17 3:18:24 PM by RavenWilder

wanderlustwarrior Role Model from Where Gods Belong Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
Role Model
#26610: May 1st 2017 at 6:33:50 PM

Is Bardock's special non-canon?

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
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#26612: May 1st 2017 at 8:56:51 PM

Although Dragon Ball Minus has some continuity errors when you compare it to the original manga (especially in regards with Goku's age) so there's that. There's also the fact that, Goku aside, nothing about Minus really contradicts Bardock: Father of Goku. It's entirely possible it still happened after Minus.

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TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
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#26613: May 1st 2017 at 9:01:06 PM

Goku's age is the biggest issue between the two. Dragon Ball Minus takes place two years after the events of Bardock: The Father of Goku. The problem with this should be obvious.

EDIT: Depending on whether you go by the original Bardock special or Dragon Ball Minus, the Saiyans worked for Frieza for either six years or eight.

Incidentally, although the manga version of the Raditz arc does not contain the flashbacks to Goku arriving on Earth as an infant, Raditz does describe him as a baby when he's sent. So even without the flashback, Minus is still a retcon; a three-year-old Goku would be more of a toddler.

edited 1st May '17 9:05:46 PM by TobiasDrake

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#26614: May 1st 2017 at 9:07:10 PM

I mean, Goku was also in full Saiyan Armor as a child in his cameo appearance in Jaco the Galactic Patrolman.

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BigBlackBangBro Time Stranger Since: Sep, 2016
Time Stranger
#26615: May 2nd 2017 at 6:31:02 AM

Actually what is up Goku being in sayian armor? That doesn't seem like a case of Toriyama forgetting. Did he change that part of Goku's origin on purpose?

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TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
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#26616: May 2nd 2017 at 8:35:54 AM

Given that Goku is three years old in Saiyan armor in both Jaco and Minus, it does seem to be a deliberate choice on Toriyama's part.

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Hobgoblin Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#26617: May 2nd 2017 at 8:45:17 AM

I'm baffled that Toriyama hates the notion of Goku being a benevolent hero, but then deliberately changes the backstory to make him more of a benevolent hero.

Ghilz Perpetually Confused from Yeeted at Relativistic Velocities Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Perpetually Confused
#26618: May 2nd 2017 at 8:46:38 AM

Just means he knows what his audience likes.

BigBlackBangBro Time Stranger Since: Sep, 2016
Time Stranger
#26619: May 2nd 2017 at 9:41:53 AM

Toriyama doesn't like Goku being hero even though his own story, particularly in OG Dragon Ball, paints him that way. Makes you wonder..

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#26620: May 2nd 2017 at 10:42:03 AM

In what way? Goku is sent to kill everyone on Earth in both versions, it's just that Minus also has him being sent because Bardock and Gine distrust Freeza, as opposed to Father of Goku, where he's sent away as part of a routine and scheduled event, and Freeza should logically know about it, and if picking up the Saiyan after 20 years is normal, there should be dozens of Saiyans on other planets who were in-between baby and adult when planet Vegeta went boom, and ARRRGGGGHH!

Father of Goku's plotholes are large enough to drive a truck through, and while Minus makes it slightly more Superman-esque in that Bardock and Gine send him against Freeza's orders, and Vegeta and his team were also disobeying Freeza, it's still with Goku going to kill everyone on Earth, and making it more Superman-esque is THE ONLY WAY THE STORY OF 'SENT AWAY AS A BABY FROM A DYING PLANET AS ONE OF THE FEW SURVIVORS' WORKS AS A STORY!

LordVatek Not really a lord of anything Since: Sep, 2014
Not really a lord of anything
#26621: May 2nd 2017 at 1:54:49 PM

Honestly I just find Father of Goku to be way more interesting than Minus so that's the one I prefer to be canon.

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Ssj3Gojira Arashi Shigehito from The Event Horizon Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Arashi Shigehito
#26624: May 2nd 2017 at 2:11:24 PM

Too bad it isn't.

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