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Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#2626: Jan 6th 2013 at 5:37:12 PM

Eh, I don't buy that. If his ki sensing is so great to feel a normal human from miles away, then he should be able to feel the ki of someone right near him, regardless of familiarity.

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#2627: Jan 6th 2013 at 5:39:44 PM

Oh, there's that. I forgot it was less "picking them out in a crowded area" and more "determining where they are right around you with nobody else around".

...Maybe Bulma has more ki than we know? Or it's just a plothole? I can't imagine the androids have NO ki since they're still biologically humans in every sense of the word, they just have cybernetic implants.

...Or maybe part of their android design is to mask their ki output specifically for the purpose of going undetected? It does seem like a feature Dr. Gero would have the foresight to include, at least. If he knows and understands ki at least.

edited 6th Jan '13 5:40:31 PM by Anomalocaris20

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#2628: Jan 6th 2013 at 5:44:54 PM

I just like to think that the infinite energy reactor "replaces" their ki. Like the body no longer produces ki because of their energy thing.

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#2629: Jan 6th 2013 at 5:48:07 PM

So could 18 theoretically train to become stronger, or is she at her peak due to the android stuff?

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
wanderlustwarrior Role Model from Where Gods Belong Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
Role Model
#2630: Jan 6th 2013 at 5:49:28 PM

The android model of 17 and 18 has no peak.

Maybe Goku just knew Bulma.

unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#2631: Jan 6th 2013 at 5:50:57 PM

Gero did make Cell. And I think Cell had ki.

It's been a while since I've seen the show or read the manga so I might be wrong.

Gero spent a shitload of time studying Goku regardless, all for a revenge trip. Not anticipating ki is something of an oversight.

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#2632: Jan 6th 2013 at 5:53:16 PM

If she truly doesn't have regular ki any more, than I don't think so.

Actually I though of something, it is possible for her and 17 to still have ki. Because Goku isn't around when 17 and 18 are activated, and he only had difficulty sensing the ki of 19 and 20 who weren't human.

So it's possible that they do still have small human ki, and that Goku would be able to sense it. I think Goku's ki sensing might be stronger than the other's because he needed it for Instant Transmission.

Also, in the Boo Arc, Gohan can't sense Videl's ki unless she's fighting so Goku at least is better at it than Gohan which lends something to Goku being a better ki sensor in general.

[up][up] Where do you keep getting this from? Nothing in the manga even implies this.

edited 6th Jan '13 5:57:56 PM by Saiga

unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#2633: Jan 6th 2013 at 5:55:21 PM

[up] I could have sworn I remembered the Videl's ki thing. I knew that after a while there were a lot of kis that were just too low to sense. Especially over distance.

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#2634: Jan 6th 2013 at 5:56:13 PM

Would Gero's brain give off ki? tongue

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
Medigo0 Since: Jun, 2012
#2635: Jan 7th 2013 at 2:42:01 AM

It is interesting how, outside of a forcefield, these androids 17 and 18 never did use energy based techniques in the manga

Though Krillin apparently did teach her the destructo disc

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
maxwellelvis Mad Scientist Wannabe from undisclosed location Since: Oct, 2009 Relationship Status: In my bunk
Mad Scientist Wannabe
#2637: Jan 7th 2013 at 6:29:03 AM

[up][up]Really? Is that right?

Of course, don't you know anything about ALCHEMY?!- Twin clones of Ivan the Great
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#2638: Jan 7th 2013 at 4:38:19 PM

I know 18 used the Kienzan but I can't remember if they didn't use any other energy attacks.

It wouldn't surprise me though.

Medigo0 Since: Jun, 2012
#2639: Jan 7th 2013 at 4:51:41 PM

well the ones from Trunks timeline did, now that I check

but the ones from the main timeline dont, in the manga at least.

wanderlustwarrior Role Model from Where Gods Belong Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
Enlong Court Dragon from The Underground Facility Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
Court Dragon
#2641: Jan 11th 2013 at 8:40:28 PM

Seems interesting that they chose to acknowledge Super Saiyan 4. I was pretty much expecting them to consider GT not a reliable source for the discussion.

That whole "Power levels are meaningless" explanation was also interesting.

I have a message from another time...
GethKnight Since: Apr, 2010
#2642: Jan 11th 2013 at 8:43:02 PM

If they hadn't, you'd have people bitching about the fact they didn't include it. So, it's a damned if they do and damned if they didn't.

Enlong Court Dragon from The Underground Facility Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
Court Dragon
#2643: Jan 11th 2013 at 8:49:30 PM

It makes sense though. If you counted how many times someone in the Saiyan or Namek arcs screwed up in a fight because they were relying on scouter readouts, you'd probably get a number equal to or greater than the actual number of fights in said arcs.

I have a message from another time...
Spirit Pretty flower from America Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Hooked on a feeling
Pretty flower
#2644: Jan 11th 2013 at 8:49:30 PM

Then again not using SS 4 on the grounds that it's not "canon" is getting into NEEEERRRD territory.

#IceBearForPresident
wanderlustwarrior Role Model from Where Gods Belong Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
Role Model
#2645: Jan 11th 2013 at 8:50:59 PM

If they left that out, they'd probably also have to decide on an incarnation of Superman to use, or to leave off the top end of his broken-ass powers.

Enlong Court Dragon from The Underground Facility Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
Court Dragon
#2646: Jan 11th 2013 at 8:53:00 PM

[up][up] Well, considering GT wasn't made by the creaor of the series, and then the creator went ahead and made more stuff after GT was made that GT can't really be reconciled with, what else can you say about GT?

But anyway.

I have a message from another time...
theweirdKiddokun What a Wonderful World! from Last Place in the Race Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
What a Wonderful World!
#2647: Jan 11th 2013 at 8:53:36 PM

They did kick off 1986 Supe and Future Super God.tongue

...Super God is a thing. Wow I mean Wow.

edited 11th Jan '13 8:55:15 PM by theweirdKiddokun

The Reaper Games starts anew.
Spirit Pretty flower from America Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Hooked on a feeling
Pretty flower
#2648: Jan 11th 2013 at 8:55:57 PM

GT already had a bunch of plot holes and contradictions towards older material. Still doesn't stop it from being put in official merchandise and games.

#IceBearForPresident
Enlong Court Dragon from The Underground Facility Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
Court Dragon
#2649: Jan 11th 2013 at 9:04:29 PM

Well, yeah. Give Goku a new form that's different than the ones that came before, and of course they'll make figures out of it and put it into the next fighting game, but as for the occasional new addition to the series itself (the occasional new OVA, or Dragon Ball Online), you aren't very likely to see anyone acknowledging Super Saiyan 4, is the thing.

Which is not that I don't think Super Saiyan 4 is a really freaking awesome concept. The move away from "more HAIR!" and the integration of the ape-like qualities are both amazing ideas by themselves (it even involved becoming the Oozaru one last time, as if subduing that part of him and making it his own). It's just that I really wish Toriyama had written it, so that we could see it acknowledged in the occasional OV As that come out or in Dragoball Online, or something.

I know that discussing degrees of how "real" something is in a fictional context is a bit off, but I hope you see the point I'm laboring.

edited 11th Jan '13 9:08:17 PM by Enlong

I have a message from another time...
GethKnight Since: Apr, 2010
#2650: Jan 11th 2013 at 9:05:25 PM

Hadn't Toriyama gone on record as saying he enjoyed GT?


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