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Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#26426: Apr 18th 2017 at 4:25:34 AM

Same except I didn't sell shit, I just hoarding an excessive number of cards and wasted my money

TyeDyeWildebeest Unreasonably Quirky from Big Rock Candy Mountain Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: How does it feel to treat me like you do?
Unreasonably Quirky
#26427: Apr 18th 2017 at 4:32:19 AM

You know, I was hugely into Yugioh back in middle school (I was never good at it, though), and I probably have a ton of cards lying around somewhere. Does anyone know where I could find out how much I could sell them for?

No beer?! But if there's no beer, then there's no beef or beans!
BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#26428: Apr 18th 2017 at 4:34:06 AM

If I didn't need it for a deck I was building, I sold them. Cuz lord knows I needed the money...What made it really annoying was when they'd reprint cards in a lower, more common rarity and therefore decrease the value of the original one.

Yugioh was like a drug circle; it was who you know, and how you played the game. I managed to make it out tho..but they keep trying to pull me back.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#26429: Apr 18th 2017 at 7:16:17 AM

Since we were talking about Goten in the main thread it got me to wondering how TFS is going to deal with him, especially since they hate him apparently. Heh, like father like son.

Oh, wait, that's actually on topic, sorry about that.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#26430: Apr 18th 2017 at 7:27:55 AM

They hate Broly too, but still managed to handle him pretty well. I wouldn't worry about it.

edited 18th Apr '17 7:28:03 AM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#26431: Apr 18th 2017 at 7:30:23 AM

Honestly, their handling of Goku himself really doesn't lead me to have much hope for that. At this point he's less a parody and more just how they actually see him/think of him. Well, actually, that's most of the characters at this point isn't it?

edited 18th Apr '17 7:31:56 AM by LSBK

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#26432: Apr 18th 2017 at 8:20:01 AM

So a parody, then.

Scrutinizing a character under a different lens is how parodies often work. What makes them funny isn't just that they're a different interpretation of the character, but also how much of that interpretation rings true to the original at least to some extent.

Just about every character in the show winds up being funnier to fans who actually agree with TFS's version of them than those that don't. We've had this argument about Goku, Gohan, Yamcha, Piccolo, Bulma....

edited 18th Apr '17 8:20:45 AM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#26433: Apr 18th 2017 at 8:39:33 AM

You know, I was going to do this long post, but instead I'll just say going "parody" isn't an excuse to keep people from questioning their writing and leave it at that. And going "other people agree" also isn't a justification. Something can be a common perception and still be wrong; the Piccolo/Gohan relationship being a prime example.

edited 18th Apr '17 8:45:27 AM by LSBK

BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#26434: Apr 18th 2017 at 8:43:03 AM

That's called Confirmation Bias btw.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#26435: Apr 18th 2017 at 8:52:00 AM

Also, I'd say there's a difference between "rings true to the original" and "actually thinks is basically the same as the original." Which isn't something that happens with all the characters, but definitively is with Goku.

edited 18th Apr '17 8:52:27 AM by LSBK

TyeDyeWildebeest Unreasonably Quirky from Big Rock Candy Mountain Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: How does it feel to treat me like you do?
Unreasonably Quirky
#26436: Apr 18th 2017 at 9:25:55 AM

Also, I'd say there's a difference between "rings true to the original" and "actually thinks is basically the same as the original." Which isn't something that happens with all the characters, but definitively is with Goku.

How so? To me, he seems like a pretty straightforward example of a parodied character, in that the quirks and flaws he exhibits in canon are exaggerated for comedic effect.

Like, Canon!Goku is kind of a dope, but he wouldn't let Frieza bribe him with pizza, or refuse to take vital heart medication because it was grape flavored, and I don't think TFS is trying to argue that he would.

No beer?! But if there's no beer, then there's no beef or beans!
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#26437: Apr 18th 2017 at 9:29:29 AM

His intelligence isn't really all I was talking about, but the idea that Goku is actually unintelligent, instead of social awkward and naive based on his childhood and background, is a part of it, yes. Well, at least until Super where he really is just an idiot, apparently.

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#26438: Apr 18th 2017 at 1:58:42 PM

The original anime and moments of the dub partially influenced that misconception in the fandom. It was really weird when I first read the manga and realized that adult Goku wasn't portrayed as 'dumb' at all.

He still does selfish things like let bad guys go or wanting to fight the Androids, but it isn't stupidity because he knows why he shouldn't. He just doesn't care.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#26439: Apr 18th 2017 at 3:08:42 PM

The fact that Z aired without DB in the States also helped that assertion because the only impression of Goku Western fans had to go on was the stuff he did from Raditz forward. This created an impression of Goku as this Superman-like figure, traveling the world defending the innocent from harm and battling evil as a matter of course.

So when he did things like sparing villains, refusing to prevent the Androids from being made, trying to pass the torch to his kids, etc. those fans just took it as Good being Dumb again.

Goku's iconic "Hope of the Universe" speech was mistaken for his default identity.

edited 18th Apr '17 3:09:25 PM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#26440: Apr 18th 2017 at 3:53:48 PM

Broly was a good example of how scathing they can be in regards to something they don't like. But they're better at "this character/idea/concept is stupid" jokes than they used to be, so the whole thing still works.

edited 18th Apr '17 3:55:15 PM by KnownUnknown

wanderlustwarrior Role Model from Where Gods Belong Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
Role Model
#26441: Apr 18th 2017 at 4:18:23 PM

Ugh. On Yugioh TCG stuff, Joey, Mai and Mako all got some retrained cards with multiple powerful effects... and they're still trash compared to the current meta. Power Creep, thy name is children's card game.

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#26442: Apr 18th 2017 at 4:26:44 PM

That's sad to hear.

One Strip! One Strip!
RavenWilder Since: Apr, 2009
#26443: Apr 18th 2017 at 7:54:25 PM

I'd say calling Goku stupid when it comes to anything not related to fighting is pretty accurate. While he initially had the excuse of having very little contact with civilization, it's not like he learned quickly after befriending Bulma, Roshi, and others. A few years (in-universe time) after the series began, Goku was still unable to tell men and women apart without seeing their genitals.

Add in the bit about him being dropped on his head and brain damaged as a child, and I'd say the reckless idiot characterization of Goku is a completely valid parody.

edited 18th Apr '17 7:55:48 PM by RavenWilder

Lionheart0 Since: Oct, 2009 Relationship Status: I'm just a hunk-a, hunk-a burnin' love
#26444: Apr 18th 2017 at 8:15:11 PM

Since we were talking about Goten in the main thread it got me to wondering how TFS is going to deal with him, especially since they hate him apparently. Heh, like father like son. Oh, wait, that's actually on topic, sorry about that.

Looking back on the discussion you guys were having in the main thread, what I actually think would be funny is to play up Goku ironically being a perfectly good father to Goten.

Subverts audience expectations while at the same time putting the joke at Gohan's expense since their brand of humor still requires some mean-spiritness.

Prime_of_Perfection Where force fails, cunning prevails Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Where force fails, cunning prevails
#26445: Apr 18th 2017 at 8:22:09 PM

Goku and Goten do indeed work better together more since Goten has a similar temperament to Goku. Well, fight happy aside, but he's as laid back and so on.

Improving as an author, one video at a time.
BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#26446: Apr 18th 2017 at 8:40:26 PM

I do think the original dub plays a large role in westerner's perception of Goku. Without Dragon Ball, or the manga, and the script pretty much downplaying all of his flaws, it'd be hard NOT to come to an entirely different conclusion about his character than what was actualyl established.

Then comes Battle of Gods and the manga hitting stateside and you start realizing isn't as much of a goody-two shoes as we thought. Goku was a lot of children's childhood hero, so to find out that he's far less noble than initially presented definitely played a role in why people are so against him being a "dumbass"

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
Ssj3Gojira Arashi Shigehito from The Event Horizon Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Arashi Shigehito
#26447: Apr 18th 2017 at 9:14:18 PM

...you are aware that Dragon Ball had Goku helping people, just because he could; there's Turtle, Suno, and Upa, and he only knew all three of them for like a few minutes.

Let's see if you can get past my Beelzemon. Mephiles, WARP SHINKA!
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#26448: Apr 18th 2017 at 9:18:15 PM

Yeah, a lot of the time now you seem to have two camps, one overstating how good he is, while the other, well, downplays how good he is.

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#26449: Apr 18th 2017 at 9:29:38 PM

From what I can tell, Toriyama is part of the latter.

Despite the fact that he wrote Goku assisting the aforementioned Turtle, Suno, and Upa.

edited 18th Apr '17 9:29:52 PM by HandsomeRob

One Strip! One Strip!
RavenWilder Since: Apr, 2009
#26450: Apr 19th 2017 at 12:10:50 AM

Goku's deal is, if he runs across someone in trouble, he'll absolutely do his best to help them out, no questions asked, but it's not something he really goes looking for; he just keeps stumbling into situations where a good ass-kicking is necessary.


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