TVTropes Now available in the app store!
Open

Follow TV Tropes

Following

Dragon Ball Z Abridged

Go To

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#26326: Apr 14th 2017 at 9:25:27 AM

[up][up] Actually, if I'm reading your initial objection right, your problem is that there is basis for it, but too many exceptions - and thus, that the primary way for it to work would be to structure it such that those various exceptions were also included.

Again, this whole conversation was spitballing for humor. If people were trying to make 100% accurate depictions of canon, it would likely look very different. And honestly, if you had such a problem with that I'm surprised you waited until now to speak up.

edited 14th Apr '17 9:36:42 AM by KnownUnknown

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#26327: Apr 14th 2017 at 9:41:07 AM

I'd make the Gods of Destruction all have 4000/4000 ATK/DEF, Divine Beast typed, possess immunity to targeting effects, allowed only one face up on the field at a time, and allow them to destroy one card on the field once per turn.

Angels like Whis would be Fairy Type but have 500 more attack points. could only be summoned if you have a God of Destruction out already, would have to return to your hand during the endphase if there's no God of Destruction on your field, immunity to targeting effects, and Whis would have this effect: "One per turn, negate the effects of all other cards activated this turn, and if you do, return them to the state they were at the start of this turn, until the End Phase. "

edited 14th Apr '17 10:59:17 AM by VeryMelon

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#26328: Apr 14th 2017 at 10:14:09 AM

I'm curious. How does the game balance cards like this without mana costs?

In Magic, mana costs are a big part of how powerful game-breaking cards are kept in check.Take this asshole, for instance. In a game where life totals start at 20, he's a 10/10 with "Protection from everything". It means exactly what it sounds like. He cannot be targeted, blocked, damaged, or enchanted by any game effects. Barring a handful of answers that can get through his protection through rules lawyering, he hits the board and then you win. Period.

What balances him is that he's next to impossible to cast. In a game where you can reasonably expect to be able to produce five or six mana in a turn by the time the game is finished, he costs ten. And it's all specific colors, too, so you need a precise combination of mana producers to play him.

So this game-breaking "F*ck you, I win" creature is kept in balance by the fact that you pretty much have to build your deck around mana production or use some kind of shenanigan to bypass his cost in order to get him on the field at all.

That's what I'm used to. But listening to this conversation, people are throwing out some ideas that sound pretty game-breaking and I'm not sure how they would be kept in balance if YGO doesn't have mana requirements.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Ghilz Perpetually Confused from Yeeted at Relativistic Velocities Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Perpetually Confused
#26329: Apr 14th 2017 at 10:16:30 AM

From my understanding, it keeps them in balance by banning them after the fact :-P

That and at least for monsters there's a level system that determines if a monster needs something tributed to be summoned.

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#26330: Apr 14th 2017 at 10:21:17 AM

There are also different levels of "allowed to be summoned". Nomi Monsters are monsters than cannot be summoned or special summoned outside their sole listed method, while Semi-Nomi monsters need to be summon with their listed method first, but afterwards can be special summoned from the graveyard by less specialized means if they're destroyed. That's just regular effect monsters though. Yugioh also has several series of special monster types with their own summoning method. These are are Fusion, Ritual, Synchro, XYZ, and Pendulum monsters.

Fusion is the first of these made, and back in the early days these monsters had their own deck on the game mat, the Fusion Deck. To play a Fusion monster you normally need a Spell Card called "Polymerization" and the components listed on the Fusion Monsters in order to Fusion Summon it. Overt ime "Polymerization" stopped being the only way you could fuse monsters, and many deck archetypes build around Fusion even have their won special Fusion cards.

Ritual Monsters, like Fusion Monsters, need you to play a specific Spell Card in order to Ritual Summon them. Unlike Fusion Monsters however, you could tribute any monsters to play the Ritual Spell cost as long as their Levels at least matched the Level requirement listed on the Ritual Spell Card. Ritual Monsters go in your main deck, so you have to have Both them and their matching Ritual Spell Card in order to play one. In the past, it was one Ritual Spell Card specific to a Ritual Monster, but again, overtime more Ritual Spells were made that allowed for less restrictive conditions.

Syncro Monsters marked the change in the Fusion Deck to the Extra Deck, because they also go there instead of the main deck. To play these you need something called a Tuner Monster on your field, then you need to send it and other face up monsters on your field to the graveyard to Syncho Summon a monster who's level equal the total levels of the sent materials from the Extra Deck. Some Sychro Monsters need specific Tuner Monsters to be summoned, while others can be summoned with any Tuner whatsoever. There can also be restrictions on what Syncho Materials the Syncho Monster needs to be played, if there isn't one for the Tuner needed.

XYZ Monsters need at least 2 monsters with the same level on the filed in order to be XYZ summoned from the Extra Deck. How many exactly will be listed on the XYZ Monster. Instead of being sent to the graveyard after the summoning, the XYZ materials are stacked underneath the XYZ monster as Overlay Units. Detaching these Overlay Units from an XYZ monster, which sends it to the graveyard is often needed in order to activate that XYZ Monster's effect. Not every XYZ Monster has an effect that needs a Overlay Unit cost though, and some XYZ monsters can't use their Overlay Units at all. Again, some XYZ Monsters will require specific XYZ Materials in order to be played at all. More importantly, if special summoned in any other way then an XYZ Monster will not have Overlay Units unless the card that summoned them says so.

Finally we come to Pendulum Monsters, which can be played like regular effect monsters and go into the main deck instead of the Extra Deck. However; they posses many important mechanics unique to them; When A Pendulum Monster is destroyed you may place it face-up in your Extra Deck, All Pendulum Monsters have a Scale Number listed on them, any 2 Pendulum Monsters can be place on either side of the game mat as "Scales", these Scales are treated as Spell Cards, When you have both Scales set you're allowed to special summon as many monsters from your hand whose level is in between the highest and lowest number on each Pendulum Scale, as well as any face-up Pendulum Monsters in your Extra Deck that fall under the same level. There are even a limited number of Pendulum Monsters that are also either a Fusion, Sychro, or XYZ Monster. These types of Pendulum Monsters need to be in the Extra Deck, then summoned in the same fashion as their non-Pendulum Monsters do, but afterwards are no different from regular Pendulum Monsters.

edited 14th Apr '17 11:18:18 AM by VeryMelon

Thebrawlbro Since: Aug, 2013
#26331: Apr 14th 2017 at 10:30:23 AM

Most of the ideas people are throwing out here aren't things that would ever work, because they are so unbalanced. People aren't trying to create fair cards here.

Ghilz Perpetually Confused from Yeeted at Relativistic Velocities Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Perpetually Confused
#26332: Apr 14th 2017 at 10:30:23 AM

Ritual Monsters are

And Very Melon had a stroke trying to make sense of Yu Gi Oh rules, dying mid post. He will be missed.

Moth13 Since: Sep, 2010
#26333: Apr 14th 2017 at 10:40:01 AM

but again, overtime more Ritual Spells were made that allowed for less restrictive conditions.

Oh that's nice to hear. I knew Fusion Monsters got a lot more support when Yugioh GX happened, but I wasn't sure if they'd ever managed to make Ritual Monsters good.

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#26334: Apr 14th 2017 at 10:56:14 AM

There are several good Ritual focused archetypes now, and some of them even have cards specific to them limited or banned from official play because of how good there are.

edited 14th Apr '17 5:05:55 PM by VeryMelon

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#26335: Apr 14th 2017 at 11:10:42 AM

For the vanilla monsters, keeping them not too overpowered is a simple matter of their level: Level 5 to 6 monsters require that you send a monster on the field to the graveyard in order to summon it, Level 7 and up monsters require that you send two monsters in the field to the graveyard in order to summon it, and most monsters that are Level 9 or above have some other summoning condition that is more costly than tributing two monsters, such as tributing three monsters.

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#26336: Apr 14th 2017 at 2:08:17 PM

I'm curious. How does the game balance cards like this without mana costs?

Poorly

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#26337: Apr 14th 2017 at 4:53:47 PM

YOU GET A BAN! AND YOU GET A BAN! AND YOU GET A BAN!

And I don't even play an Yugioh. I just have about a lot of cards getting banned.

One Strip! One Strip!
Zeromaeus Since: May, 2010
#26338: Apr 14th 2017 at 5:00:06 PM

Even Magic struggles to keep the balance of power away from 0/0.5/1 turn victories. YGO just gets plain silly.

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#26339: Apr 14th 2017 at 5:07:46 PM

And the new series V-Rains is gonna make things even crazier.

But that's neither here nor there.

WEN BOJACK?

One Strip! One Strip!
Ssj3Gojira Arashi Shigehito from The Event Horizon Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Arashi Shigehito
#26340: Apr 14th 2017 at 5:08:38 PM

After Cell, of course.

Let's see if you can get past my Beelzemon. Mephiles, WARP SHINKA!
Zeromaeus Since: May, 2010
#26341: Apr 14th 2017 at 5:12:03 PM

Don't ask silly questions Rob. Don't forget I can cut you in half with just one pinky.

Moth13 Since: Sep, 2010
#26342: Apr 14th 2017 at 5:13:49 PM

Gotta wait for King Kai's planet to blow up after all.

[up][up][up]What new kind of monster card is that introducing and how silly is it going to make everything?

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#26343: Apr 14th 2017 at 5:34:05 PM

I wonder if they're going to go full Pirates of the Caribbean ride/movie parody with Bojack. Have him sing pirate songs, give him Barbossa's lines, etc.

edited 14th Apr '17 5:35:32 PM by KnownUnknown

Zeromaeus Since: May, 2010
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#26345: Apr 14th 2017 at 5:50:42 PM

I hope he keeps his pirate voice, at least.

Hylarn (Don’t ask)
#26346: Apr 14th 2017 at 6:55:56 PM

And the new series V-Rains is gonna make things even crazier.

Isn't the point of link monsters to make things less crazy?

I wonder if they're going to go full Pirates of the Caribbean ride/movie parody with Bojack. Have him sing pirate songs, give him Barbossa's lines, etc.

I don't think they'd focus solely on a specific franchise like that, but I fully expect it to be heavy on pirate jokes

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#26347: Apr 14th 2017 at 9:14:33 PM

Don't ask silly questions Rob. Don't forget I can cut you in half with just one pinky.

Gotta find Rob to kill Rob, and none can find Rob.cool

And yeah, Bojack is a gonna be one big Pirate's reference I think. I wonder what his goal is going to be changed to. Maybe the plan to search earth for Buried treasure or something.

Or maybe just pillaging and raping RANSACKING and all that.

One Strip! One Strip!
Karxrida from Eureka, the Forbidden Land Since: May, 2012 Relationship Status: I LOVE THIS DOCTOR!
#26348: Apr 14th 2017 at 9:16:51 PM

Yu-Gi-Oh might be an unbalanced mess, but dammit it's a fun unbalanced mess.

wanderlustwarrior Role Model from Where Gods Belong Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
Role Model
#26349: Apr 14th 2017 at 9:20:00 PM

Eh... not anymore, for me.

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#26350: Apr 14th 2017 at 10:16:55 PM

This is the first I'd heard from Link Monsters (I get burnt out of the franchise quite easily) and while it looks like the new rules are trying to reign in special summon spam, it's also looking to make things more convoluted than they were previously.

It's also pretty clear general Special Summon spam is just going to be replaced by Link Summon spam. As with happens with every new summon type they introduce.

[up] Yeah... really sad, I remember when we used to play on DN with some other tropers. But the game just gets more and more bloated with all these new, heavily pushed mechanics.

edited 14th Apr '17 10:18:06 PM by Saiga


Total posts: 40,340
Top