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wanderlustwarrior Role Model from Where Gods Belong Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: What's love got to do with it?
Role Model
#26226: Apr 11th 2017 at 8:20:55 PM

Yugioh has gotten to that point though. "I activate my card's effect to cancel your card's effect. Then I activate my same card's effect to add whatever I want to my hand/the field. Then I activate that same card's other effect to bring out more stuff that helps me. Also, you can't stop it unless you have even more powerful cards. Now, I attack for game over."

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#26227: Apr 11th 2017 at 8:23:28 PM

[up][up]That's called a First Turn Kill in Yu-Gi-Oh! and there have been many a deck over the years who could do it, some of those methods eventually getting banned as well when they prove over-centralizing.

edited 11th Apr '17 8:23:36 PM by VeryMelon

Karxrida from Eureka, the Forbidden Land Since: May, 2012 Relationship Status: I LOVE THIS DOCTOR!
#26228: Apr 11th 2017 at 8:24:36 PM

First turn? Pft.

In Yu-Gi-Oh it's actually possible to win without even taking your first turn, and I'm not talking about Exodia. It's stupidly situational to the extreme, but it's possible.

Plus there are a ton of different ways in Yu-Gi-Oh to FTK.

edited 11th Apr '17 8:29:10 PM by Karxrida

Nikkolas from Texas Since: Dec, 2009 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#26229: Apr 11th 2017 at 8:34:22 PM

Sartorius was one of the best YGO villains ever partly because he got a Zero Turn Kill.

edited 11th Apr '17 8:34:49 PM by Nikkolas

KarkatTheDalek Not as angry as the name would suggest. from Somwhere in Time/Space Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: You're a beautiful woman, probably
Not as angry as the name would suggest.
#26230: Apr 11th 2017 at 8:36:19 PM

Can someone explain to me how that happened? I've heard about it, and I'm still curious as to how it's possible.

Oh God! Natural light!
VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#26231: Apr 11th 2017 at 8:39:59 PM

Saio got lucky mostly. His opponent summoned a strong enough monster to beat him with.

Hylarn (Don’t ask)
#26232: Apr 11th 2017 at 8:40:35 PM

Didn't YGO just overhaul it's rules to slow things way down?

Nikkolas from Texas Since: Dec, 2009 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#26234: Apr 11th 2017 at 8:48:32 PM

[up][up][up][up] Sartorius can see the future with pretty much 100% accuracy and his deck is built upon this. A lot of his cards mainly have to do with turning his opponent's offense against them and that's what he did with this guy. His opponent made a combo that did 4000 damage in one shot and Sartorius reversed it so it hit the other guy instead. The guy finished himself off on his first turn while Sartorius merely used a couple cards he was allowed to use during his... I dunno what it's called, standby phase or something like that.

Never actually played Yugioh in my life, just love the anime.

Moth13 Since: Sep, 2010
#26235: Apr 11th 2017 at 8:54:31 PM

Looks like he won using cards that allow you to discard them in response to your opponents actions for an effect. Same kind of thing as Kuriboh.

God_of_Awesome Since: Jan, 2001
#26236: Apr 11th 2017 at 9:38:28 PM

Read it. So Guy 1 amped up a monster to ludicrous degrees on the first turn, which is his, and then used a card that skipped his opponent's turn, thereby by-passing the restriction against attacking on your first turned.

So Guy 1 is about to end this fool with his even more amped up monster directly attack Guy 2's defenseless self when Guy 2 is like, "Actually, I gotta couple of cards in my hand that can be played instantly, outside my turn, directly from my hand." And a combo of said cards makes it so Guy 1's super amped up card hits Guy 1 instead, thereby killing him.

Guy 2 technically never took a turn.

In all, both of them had some ridiculously lucky draws.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#26237: Apr 11th 2017 at 10:07:26 PM

Actually, I gotta couple of cards in my hand that can be played instantly, outside my turn, directly from my hand.

Is that unusual? In Magic, we just call those Instants. They're a big part of the game.

edited 11th Apr '17 10:07:46 PM by TobiasDrake

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Karxrida from Eureka, the Forbidden Land Since: May, 2012 Relationship Status: I LOVE THIS DOCTOR!
#26238: Apr 11th 2017 at 10:12:20 PM

That's unusual in Yu-Gi-Oh. Not many non-Mosnter cards can be played directly from the hand during the opponent's turn.

Ghilz Perpetually Confused from Yeeted at Relativistic Velocities Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Perpetually Confused
#26239: Apr 11th 2017 at 10:15:07 PM

In all, both of them had some ridiculously lucky draws.

,,, Have you ever watched Yu Gi Oh? It might as well be The Magic Poker Equation - The Series. Ridiculously Lucky Draw is an actual acknowledged super power in the story.

Hobgoblin Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#26240: Apr 11th 2017 at 10:19:24 PM

Everyone cheats at Duel Monsters. Perfect Cell being really strict on Atem with the rules is basically an acknowledgement of the fact that he really doesn't follow the rules at all.

And that's just him playing banned cards. We're not even getting into things like the ridiculous plays he makes.

Ghilz Perpetually Confused from Yeeted at Relativistic Velocities Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Perpetually Confused
#26241: Apr 11th 2017 at 10:28:30 PM

I am so waiting for Yu Gi Oh abridged to cover that scene.

KarkatTheDalek Not as angry as the name would suggest. from Somwhere in Time/Space Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: You're a beautiful woman, probably
Not as angry as the name would suggest.
#26242: Apr 11th 2017 at 10:40:00 PM

@Sartorius: I figured he somehow played stuff from his hand. I was just wondering what those cards were, I guess.

Oh God! Natural light!
WillDeRegio Since: Jan, 2015
#26243: Apr 11th 2017 at 11:07:59 PM

[up][up]Okay, now that's just being silly.

Yu-gi-oh!: the game where you spend half the time explaining your cards effects so you can cockblock your opponent when he tries to pull out his Bigger Stick. Repeat ad nauseum until someone runs out of luck, cards, or Ass Pulls.

Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#26244: Apr 12th 2017 at 2:25:07 AM

Big numbers meant a lot less than they used to and DBZ could learn a thing or two from that.

I think that's a terrible comparison. Yu Gi Oh is a card game in-universe which allows these NUH-UH I IGNORE YOUR ATTACK effects.

Having instant win, unavoidable abilities in 'real' fights is just cheap and boring. It's a hell of a lot more cheap than being powerful, so I've never understood the obsession with obscenely broken powers or what merit they're supposed to have.

Ultimately, you're not going to win unless you can punch your opponent in the face enough times to bring his life total to zero, but landing those punches tends to be more a matter of card shenanigans than just playing creatures and hitting them.

That's true of some playstyles, not others. Depending on the meta, it's also possible to be ruled by big creatures whose only ability is preventing your opponent from dealing with it using shenanigans.

Is that unusual? In Magic, we just call those Instants. They're a big part of the game.

Yu Gi Oh doesn't have mana, so spells and traps are much more restricted on when they can be used for the sake of balance. As seen with the Pact spells or Force of Will in Magic, abilities that can be activated with no resources already in known are incredibly powerful from an information/bluffing stand-point. Spells can't be used during an opponents' turn, unless they're Quick-play spells which, like trap cards, must be set face-down on the field on your turn before you can activate them in response to an effect on an opponents' turn.

There are a rare few effects that can be activated from the hand, with nothing on the field (and they've been there since the early days of the game - Kuriboh is one) but just like Pact of Negation or Force of Will, they have their own restrictions.

[up][up] Prince Ojin summons Sattelite Cannon, buffs it to 4,000 attack (the number of life points they used in the anime) and skips Saio's first turn using a combo of cards. He attacks Saio, who discards Arcana Force XIV - Temperance to reduce the damage to him to zero. Then the Prince summons another monster, which allows Saio to activate the effect of Intervention of Fate, a card not in the regular game, which allows him to play another anime-only card (Ace of Sword) and cause Ojin to take damage equal to the attack of one monster Saio chooses: the Sattelite Cannon with 4,000 attack.

edited 12th Apr '17 2:33:59 AM by Saiga

thok That's Dr. Title, thank you! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Non-Canon
That's Dr. Title, thank you!
#26245: Apr 12th 2017 at 5:23:22 AM

To go with the current conversation, the longest banned creature card in the Yugioh card game (which was part of the first ban list and has never been unbanned, something only two other cards can match) has attack 200 and defense 100.

The reason Yata-Garatsu is banned is that if it does damage to a player, they lose their next draw phase; if that happens the damage is almost irrelevant. It also returns to a player's hand at the end of the turn, which makes it very hard to kill.

And no, you don't remember it from the anime, since it only appears briefly in the Noah versus Yugi duel.

Enlong Court Dragon from The Underground Facility Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
Court Dragon
#26246: Apr 12th 2017 at 6:14:53 AM

Yeah, in Yugioh, the lack of a resource like mana means that your plays tend to be set up with the card itself (laying a trap card face down on your field, to activate later, as one example. Having monsters on your field to sacrifice to a bigger monster, as another). Cards that are truly instant are more powerful in Yugioh than in magic, since in Magic, you can look at your enemy's land pool to know what cards they're capable of playing for the rest of the turn. setting traps is a little like playing Lands; you have your resources ready, but your opponent now has a vague idea of what you're capable of doing on their turn.

I have a message from another time...
Saiga Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
#26247: Apr 12th 2017 at 7:13:02 AM

Yata-Garasu was also banned because it could be abused alongside Chaos Emperor Dragon (who could destroy all cards on the field and in both players' hands) and a recruiter to leave Yata-Garasu on the field, with your opponent having no cards in hand or on the field and skipping their draw step every turn while Yata-Garasu kept pecking away.

Ahh, the joys of being a kid lucky enough to trade a Chaos Emperor Dragon off some idiot in primary school. That thing was stupidly broken even without cheesy combos.

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#26248: Apr 12th 2017 at 8:08:03 AM

I can think of at least one character in Dragon Ball with a pretty cheesy Yu-gi-oh-esque effect: Botamo, who cannot be destroyed by battle.

Karxrida from Eureka, the Forbidden Land Since: May, 2012 Relationship Status: I LOVE THIS DOCTOR!
#26249: Apr 12th 2017 at 11:01:33 AM

People are talking about a NTK in the show using anime-only cards, but getting a NTK is possible in the actual game.

I think it uses a banned card, though, and I don't know what it's called. It's a Monster that allows you to play Traps directly from your hand if it gets discarded somehow. Or something.

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#26250: Apr 12th 2017 at 11:12:10 AM

"Makyura the Destructor" would be that banned card. The thing about a real life Zero Turn Kill is that pulling one of is always a matter luck. If things don't go your way you can't do one.


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