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takashi.0 Sayonara, Monty Oum from Somewhere Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: Brony
Sayonara, Monty Oum
#1: Oct 3rd 2010 at 10:58:59 AM

Has anyone been keeping up with it? I've wanted to but I've been kept busy. Is it any good?

Canondorf Since: Sep, 2009
takashi.0 Sayonara, Monty Oum from Somewhere Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: Brony
Sayonara, Monty Oum
#3: Oct 4th 2010 at 5:06:52 AM

Care to elaborate?

biznizz Since: Jan, 2001
#4: Oct 4th 2010 at 9:17:30 AM

I'd rather wait until the mini is finished before passing judgment.

...That said, it features a Shocking Swerve that Hush is actually Dick Grayson. General consensus is that whether or not it's really the truth, it's still pretty lame. Also criticized is the inexplicably strained relationship between Bruce and Terry that comes off a bit forced.

Sometimes life just sucks. You have to learn to take the good with the bad. Why should you expect anything different in the mediums?
Jhiday (Don’t ask)
#5: Oct 4th 2010 at 12:48:56 PM

I remember the original Hush storyline having a similarly lame Shocking Swerve about the titular villain's identity... which turned out not to be true anyway, so I'm keeping some hope (although I'm not holding my breath : his actual identity was pretty lame too until Paul Dini got his hands on him).

biznizz Since: Jan, 2001
#6: Oct 4th 2010 at 1:28:18 PM

^But IIRC, the Hush in Batman Beyond supposedly has super-strength to rip open a steel door. Either their doing a nod to The Dark Knight Strikes Again, or it's a shapeshifter of sorts.

I didn't mind the initial Hush too much, but I thought his reason for being evil was INCREDIBLY LAAAME. So Yeah, thank God for Paul Dini.

Sometimes life just sucks. You have to learn to take the good with the bad. Why should you expect anything different in the mediums?
Canondorf Since: Sep, 2009
#7: Oct 5th 2010 at 4:09:38 AM

^^^^ It's considered extremely mediocre and not worth $4/22pages. At least dl the first few issues, then decide whether to buy it.

Malkavian What is this from madness Since: Jan, 2001
What is this
#8: Oct 6th 2010 at 1:40:17 PM

^^That's 'cauze no one can polish a turd like Dini.

In any case, it's really not that worth it. I've been hoping for a Batman Beyond comic for years and outside the new Catwoman (which incidentally goes against the original writers' desire to give Terry a unique rogues gallery) there's very little of interest.

"Everyone wants an answer, don't they?... I hate things with answers." — Grant Morrison
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#9: Oct 7th 2010 at 1:23:41 AM

I like the idea - as long as they don't make it a the canon future for Bats: I don't really like it when they set futures in stone like that.

3of4 Just a harmless giant from a foreign land. from Five Seconds in the Future. Since: Jan, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
Just a harmless giant from a foreign land.
#10: Nov 4th 2010 at 3:57:37 AM

well, its more or less said that Terry will be Batman in the future. How this exactly plays out on new earth (Beyond is another earth, if i remember correctly and not missed a retcon)...we'll see. I for one deeply pity the boy at the prospect at beeing trained by DAMIAN. I mean...its propably going to be Training from Hell turned Up To Eleven.

edited 4th Nov '10 3:59:16 AM by 3of4

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collex Since: Jan, 2010
#11: Nov 4th 2010 at 7:10:07 AM

Isn't there a real, ongoing, monthly series that coming up in January? Is it by the same guys then the mini-series? It seems better, from the synopsis.

Balesirion Since: Jan, 2001
#12: Nov 4th 2010 at 1:16:21 PM

Yes to both questions. As for being better, well, let's hope so.

KingZeal Since: Oct, 2009
#13: Nov 4th 2010 at 1:41:03 PM

Seriously, what does the Batman Beyond verse have against Dick Grayson?

Seriously, the reason I slowly grew to hate the Beyond mythos is because the entire story took one massive dump on my favorite character.

edited 4th Nov '10 1:41:44 PM by KingZeal

Balesirion Since: Jan, 2001
#14: Nov 4th 2010 at 1:47:06 PM

[up]Actually, I'm pretty sure the Hush in the current Batman Beyond series is just a guy who had plastic surgery to look like Dick Grayson, like the original Hush now looks like Bruce Wayne.

KingZeal Since: Oct, 2009
MrCleaverhook Since: Jan, 2010
#16: Nov 4th 2010 at 1:56:30 PM

Actually Hush Beyond is a clone of Dick.

edited 4th Nov '10 1:57:04 PM by MrCleaverhook

Maridee from surfside Since: Nov, 2009 Relationship Status: Dating Catwoman
#17: Nov 4th 2010 at 7:45:41 PM

It's the shorts. They could never take him seriously.

ophelia, you're breaking my heart
3of4 Just a harmless giant from a foreign land. from Five Seconds in the Future. Since: Jan, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
Just a harmless giant from a foreign land.
#18: Nov 7th 2010 at 2:22:58 PM

At least he wasn't taken by the Joker, Brainwashed into Joker Jr and implanted with a backup Version of said crazy Clown.

I for once liked the characterization of him more or less. The fact that he and Bruce hat a (final!?) falling out ties pretty much into Bruce's "old and alone" status at the start of BB.

Terry did not "ursurp" any position which was in this universe not long vacant.

And given the fact that Babs is happily married in the BB Universe and shacked up with Bruce at some point in the TAS timeframe pretty much shows that they did indeed have nothing more than a teenagers romance, not something like the comics.

Batman Beyond is Terry's Story, not Dicks ;) How it works out on New Earth...well..i for one see Damian always nagging Terry about "Grayson could do this faster/better!" during his training. (Given that he would see his/their father as unreachable standard, Dick comic as close as they come to it)

edited 7th Nov '10 2:27:50 PM by 3of4

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KingZeal Since: Oct, 2009
#19: Nov 7th 2010 at 4:26:57 PM

Everything you just said pretty much reaffirms what I'm talking about.

Those character developments happened entirely within the context of Beyond and only to set the stage for Terry to be the one true Bat heir.

takashi.0 Sayonara, Monty Oum from Somewhere Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: Brony
3of4 Just a harmless giant from a foreign land. from Five Seconds in the Future. Since: Jan, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
Just a harmless giant from a foreign land.
#21: Nov 7th 2010 at 5:10:18 PM

Not really. The starting falling out between Dick Grayson and Bruce Wayne began WAAAAY back in The Animated Series.

BB was just the logical consequence of a process which startet years earlier.

So to say, your Argument would have to be "the whole DCAU exists to take a massive dump on your favorite char" evil grin

And its not like Dick is the one true bat heir on New Earth either. I know of at least a certain Tykebomb who would SERIOUSLY argue that point (propably with some ninja tricks and a sword). And if we take the bat-son terminology i would say Tim Drake can also rightfully claim to be exactly that. Jason Todd though..propably filed for family divorce by now.

edited 7th Nov '10 5:19:36 PM by 3of4

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KingZeal Since: Oct, 2009
#22: Nov 7th 2010 at 9:41:46 PM

Bruce and Dick fall out all the time. The supposed "final fallout" didn't happen until the time between series.

Tim Drake is a character who developed alongside the canon Bat mythos. Terry Mc Ginnis literally came out of nowhere in animated canon, and his series (and others that followed) retroactively told story to build up exactly why he "deserves" the Batman role. I never liked the fact that Dick Grayson was an afterthought in that series. Everything we learn about his life (breakup with Bruce and Barbara, career outside Gotham) is done in offhand backstory.

So, I have no problem with Tim. He make an excellent Batman, and he's a great little brother surrogate. But he developed as a character who interrupted alongside the Bat family proper, not coming along after the fact with everything set up for his "rightful place".

3of4 Just a harmless giant from a foreign land. from Five Seconds in the Future. Since: Jan, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
Just a harmless giant from a foreign land.
#23: Nov 8th 2010 at 12:52:38 AM

I have to disagree. The rift between Bruce and Dick in DCAU Canon was not one of the "tell him i'm not speaking to him." falling outs as happen in the comics. They may fall out and make up in the comics every few years but aside from basic charakterization the Bruce Wayne of Comics and the Bruce Wayne of DCAU differ substantially in the way the express the feeling towards others (i daresay that DCAU-Bruce is waaaaay more stubborn in admitting a mistake). Also, the relations may appear similar, they are not the same.

Also, i think you're doing Terry and his characterization and Character Development injustice with reducing it to an "afterthought". And Dick Grayson also at some point "came out of nowhere". As did Jason Todd and Tim Drake.

The DCAU follows its own storyline, its not an direkt adaption of New Earth. Batman Beyond is the story of Terry Mc Ginnis wo stumps into a new world, the world of Batman. It's not simply Batman TAS in the future. Its a new Batman, with new rogues in a new Gotham, and Terry as character is an integral thing to how the show works. For one...could you think Dick Grayson would have ever put up with Bruce nagging in via com all the time like Terry did ;)?

Batman Beyond is not about Bruce Wayne and his new Sidekick, imo. Batman Beyond is the story about Terry Mc Ginnis and how he becomes Batman.

Well, the comic still goes an issue and maybe we get to see Dicks return as Nightwing, new and improved with an Eyepatch of Power ! and a nice teamup Dick/Batman vs Crazy-Clone-Dick

edited 8th Nov '10 12:56:08 AM by 3of4

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KingZeal Since: Oct, 2009
#24: Nov 8th 2010 at 7:48:33 AM

That first paragraph is once again my entire point: it's not the Dick Grayson and Bruce Wayne dynamic that I've come to respect in the comics. Regardless of how many times they fall out, they're still there for each other. Saying "oh we had a falling out a long time ago" in the Beyond series rubbed me the wrong way. If you enjoy alternate tellings of the characters, that's fine: I have no problem with Beyond when it's clearly an alternate future. When the DCAU (and, sometimes, the comics) treat it as though it's canon, it grates me further.

And no, Dick Grayson and Tim Drake did not "come out of nowhere". That's a stretch, and you're really twisting my point. Again, Dick Grayson and Tim Drake both developed as characters alongside the rest of the DC Universe. Dick Grayson was introduced a year after Batman (again, saying he "came out of nowhere is an absolute stretch when he's been there for 99% of Batman's career).

Tim Drake grew into his spot in the universe as well. Don't forget that Tim Drake's most popular era in the comics was when he had no desire to become the next Batman. Tim was simply there to do his time as Robin and go on to a normal life.

If you want to say Jason Todd came out of nowhere . . . okay, fine that works. And that's exactly why the fandom hated him and voted for him to die.

3of4 Just a harmless giant from a foreign land. from Five Seconds in the Future. Since: Jan, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
Just a harmless giant from a foreign land.
#25: Nov 8th 2010 at 10:01:46 AM

And my point is that Terry did also not come out of nowhere but developed alongside the DCAU Universe. He startet out in BB but the char continued to develop during JLU (even if he was only in 3 episodes). He startet out as a new character, yes. But so did, for example, Harley Quinn and Renee Montoya.

And the fact thats not the Bruce/Dick dynamic is simply because the DCAU follows its own way instead of being a direct adaption of comic storylines. The current Miniseries is still in the DCAU Universe (Earth-12 in the DC Multiverse i think). According to Batman #700 he will also be Batman IV (after Damian) of New Earth, so, out of pure curiosity, would this variation be more to your taste?

(on the other hand...think of a New Earth Nightwing(Or Batman)/Earth-12 Batman Teamup...could the fun ;)?)

And i agree with you on the point of Tim not wanting to be Batman, because of that i made the distinction between bat-heir (Dick) and bat-son (Tim). (i for one like him as Red Robin so far)

However, i think we both have made or point regarding or views on BB and i don't think we can convince each other. Let's agree to disagree on the matter, shall we?

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